To say no to going back to office until I've had vaccine & restrictions lifted?

[Willow79]

I live in Scotland and have been wfh for a year. I'm late 20s and asthmatic. Basically I wouldnt feel safe going back to physical work until I've at least had the vaccine. I know I'm young but I have friends with long covid and the prospect really scares me.

Anyway over the last 2 weeks my boss has been asking colleagues to meet our clients in physical meetings again. They travel there together by car and spend time with multiple teams of people.

Today was the first time the boss suggested I do this soon and another client also put pressure on me for the first time saying they want to meet soon as things go back to 'normal'.

AIBU to not want to do this seeing as the rule is a phased return to work in June?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Yes *@PlumpAndDeliciousFatcat* I'm aware that it wasn't in the main for the protection of young people (although if you want to blame anyone for the misconception then perhaps look to Matt Hancock/Boris etc who have been very keen to emphasise that 'young people get ill with coronavirus TOO! Long COVID is a real possibility!') but now the older more vulnerable population have been vaccinated, it is now the young who are 'higher risk', albeit that risk being low. It is still a risk, even a tiny number of young people dying is really hideous, as it is with all illness. Given it's pretty close to the point when everyone will be vaccinated then I don't see why it's wrong for the young to consider their health.

On the flip side, as you say the vulnerable are largely vaccinated and it's safe for the young to have to continue as normal, then presumably they should be allowed to actually live again properly too? And not wait until 21 June. It can't work both ways.

I don't believe I said anything contrary to the points that you make here. Slow and phased re-opening is sensible. I don't think OP should be forced to return to the workplace. I do think that it might be helpful for her to start considering ways to 'get back on the horse', and that perhaps f2f meetings with appropriate safety measures and travel in private cars might be a sensible phased approach in the next few months. OP needs to prepare herself for the increasingly likely possibility that she may not have had her first dose of the vaccine by 21 June (or the equivalent Scottish date in early June when restrictions are largely lifted).

[quote confusedfriday]@BusyLizzie61
Can I ask a genuine question? So if COVID is such a threat for people like OP (and I understand the fear, we are in pandemic), what about other numerous infections? We don’t have a vaccine from everything and the flu vaccine is not always readily available or not always effective anyway. So how did people like this survive before pandemic?[/quote]
I can only respond as a shielder, one of the reasons being my asthma.
For me, I have always had health and safety risks in place to protect me as much as possible from known potential risks. I have had offices relocated due to such factors for example and Wfh when necessary was in place for me as part of this over a decade ago. So, before this pandemic, for me, there were safeguards in place that were employed to ensure that I could work in as safe a manner as possible.

Pre pandemic, and probably post pandemic, I cannot imagine that these support mechanisms will be necessary nor appropriate for the majority, including the op, who basically has well controlled and manageable asthma with no other contraindications.

Those further up the thread suggesting that they know people with severe asthma that hasn't involved hospitalisation, I'd beg to differ. They are very unlikely to be at step 4 or 5 of the asthma treatment stages who often suffer from a worse quality of life, frequent asthma attacks, hospitalisations and are at higher risk of death as a result.
Asthma is a serious condition, but over 90% of asthmatics are not in this treatment/disease category.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
I have no illusions anymore. A lot of poorer people, who mostly can’t WFH, had no choice and were expected to accommodate others while being unable to mitigate their own risks. There will be a delivery driver who won’t survive without money, who also happened to be asthmatic. Why is this fact always brushed under the carpet? If only they were at least paid fairy due to higher risks! High standards for all lol? This divide existed well before COVID, but YES, I am bitter with the fact that some people just can’t see things in perspective.
Now, if someone wants to fight against “9-6 slavery”, I’m all for it, why not? I have been an office worker for years after all. It’s a good thing and many offices already do exactly that with the flexible office working schedule being in place. But let’s separate this issue from Covid.
I’m mid 30s and to be frank with you, most of people of my age are praying for their workplaces to open to enable them to work. Zero Covid will never happen, it’s impossible. Being unvaccinated doesn’t make them any more likely to suffer from Covid than before, their risks remain low with or without a vaccine.

Infection rates are very low at the moment.

You may not have been vaccinated, but many of the people you have meetings with will have been.

Social distancing can continue to be maintained.

People will also continue having regular lateral flow tests.

If you are worried about the car, is it an option to go in your own car?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

It's a good point too *@peak2021*, those who can work from home doing so has been there to reduce the risk for everyone.

@confusedfriday I do agree with you too- there are obvious benefits to working from home- saving on commuting (although this isn't massive for some people including me who lived near my workplace), it definitely helps as a single parent too. I think more choice for everyone should be a good thing surely? The pandemic has been dire for so many reasons, it would be good for some of the positive elements to remain and WFH part of the time will be one of them.

We should be looking to drive up standards for all, not a continual race to the bottom.

I’m actually very sympathetic to the OP as it very scary ‘returning to a commercial place of work’ and it seems sensible to wait until vaccines have been given to all adults if it is possible. However, I’m not buying the whole idea that those working from home have been doing so to save the rest of us. I felt much safer and happier working from home. It wasn’t an act of heroism.

Solidarity would have been lovely but there hasn’t been a lot shown to other workers when they have returned to ‘commercial places of work’ in their turn (if they ever left). To be harsh, I can’t see many supermarket workers, doctors and refuse collectors worrying about the safety of those working in offices. You’ll be fighting your own battles, I’m afraid.

I find these types of threads a bit odd. People who are claiming that because they have had to go to work seem to be missing the point that the more people that can work from home the better as it keeps community transmission low. So it keeps people who can't work from home safer.

If you are really at high risk then surely you would be given the vaccine?

I'm in England and have had my vaccine. I never got a shield letter

Should add I have asthma and have been on a nebuliser once in 2012

YABU

I really fear for people trying to get back to normal. Rates are low, you’re young and can’t be that vulnerable if you’ve had a vaccine.

Don’t go but don’t be surprised if there are redundancies in future that your name might be at the top of the list.

If you haven’t had a vaccine I mean

@CrystalE
Because we don’t believe that those who are WFH are also shielding. I know many people who are WFH and also breaking the rules big time, including meeting indoors. If all those WFH also shield, I understand your point. Actually most of them don’t.
Anyway, I think the only option for OP is to have a discussion with her employer and to be ready to negotiate conditions of her phased return. And also to share her concerns with a GP in order to have a vaccine early if she’s at risk of COVID. Good luck to OP and everyone.

It depends. I'm civil service. Last year the unions caused havoc so we didn't have to go back in. This year the unions seem to be quiet, so I'm expecting to be called back in soon...

@lovingllamaa

So many people have been made to redundant due to covid I’m sure your employers wouldn’t have a problem replacing you if that’s what you want?

The jobs market appears to be booming. I'm getting bombarded with ads on LinkedIn and calls from recruiters.

However, I’m not buying the whole idea that those working from home have been doing so to save the rest of us. I felt much safer and happier working from home. It wasn’t an act of heroism.

Lol talk about hyperbole. No not to 'save the rest of us' but what was the point of people working from home if it wasn't to lower the rates of the virus which everyone benefits from.

I'm quite lucky really @BustopherPonsonbyJones, I don't have many of my battles to fight when it comes to work, I have a good employer and it's a shame more don't.

As a woman in her twenties with controlled asthma the OP is probably the lowest possible risk, and in fact at lower risk than a fully vaccinated fifty something. So she sounds over anxious, but her boss sounds like an arse who’s been bending if not breaking regulations throughout. OTOH she needs a job and the “right” answer of reporting him to the appropriate department (who I doubt have the resources to investigate) might put that at risk.

I think the best compromise to keep your job is to agree to meet up with colleagues and clients but to make the case for meeting in ventilated spaces and absolutely draw the line at car sharing. And make sure you’re using your ventilators completely in line with instructions.

There is no reason the meetings need to be face to face. These clients want them to be face to face because they miss the in person 'banter' and camaraderie of in person brain storming.

Clients want it, so that’s really the end of the story.

If your company doesn’t deliver, someone else will.

You’re not at high risk, so try not to worry. Take sensible measures to protect yourself, but remember that rates are low and many are vaxxed, which will be limiting spread.

Unsure what legislation is in place for Scotland as not where I live but someone further up said It ends in June, what will you do if you haven’t for some reason had a vaccine by then? Will you resign?

Many companies are now asking for people to return to the office as working from home does impact a company. Many clients prefer to work with someone they can speak to face to face instead of a screen. I will also dare to say it but SOME people that are currently working from home are not being as productive as they would be in a office environment. Please note I said some not ALL.

I wfh permanently but had to go to a visit on a client site recently. They were in a business that had to be open throughout.I would rather have done it from the comfort of my home as opposed to sitting in a freezing room 2m with an FFP2 mask on for several hours which my company insisted on as part of the risk assessment but I’d never have dreamed of saying no. Client is king. You don’t give them what they want, they’ll find someone who will.

I must admit I have found it difficult to deal with being a going into work, older age group, underlying condition household, and following the rules, yet seeing rules broken by people who are staying at home because of the risk of going to work.
I do hope people worrying about going out to work have been observing the rules generally.

[quote confusedfriday]@CrystalE
Because we don’t believe that those who are WFH are also shielding. I know many people who are WFH and also breaking the rules big time, including meeting indoors. If all those WFH also shield, I understand your point. Actually most of them don’t.
Anyway, I think the only option for OP is to have a discussion with her employer and to be ready to negotiate conditions of her phased return. And also to share her concerns with a GP in order to have a vaccine early if she’s at risk of COVID. Good luck to OP and everyone.[/quote]
Some people who WFH are also obeying all the other guidelines in their free time, some people who WFH are breaking them. No reason to expect that the split is any different to the WOH population.

However a person who WFH all week and goes to an illegal party at the weekend is still less likely to catch and/or spread the virus that a person who works with several other colleagues all week, goes to the same party and then goes back to work with colleagues the next week. There are real benefits to the community in people WFH where possible, which is why those are the guidelines.

Some of the responses to this thread are unreasonable. This 'well i've had to do it so should you' completely misses the point. There are guidelines in place which say you should only go back to work provided the workplace etc is safe - social distancing, masks, ventilation are in place. Car sharing isn't advisable.

The OP has been working from home so why accuse her of being lazy?

The virus is endemic: it's still circulating. Being in close proximity to others overtime puts her and others at risk. Even with full vaccination the advise about wearing masks, social distancing still stands.

advice

As you in Scotland your workplace is massively breaking the lockdown rules.

Its still completely wfh here unless you are in a sector that has re-opened and even then for office work its still wfh unless it not possible.

Having people work from home helps everyone because it lowers the overall numbers and thus your risk of infection. However this is a business that presumably rellies on clients for income and if meetings are less effective at home then possibly full wfh isn’t possible. The judgement is the employers although they should have reasons/ risk assessments etc to support. I’d doesn’t sound like op has been asked to work in the office but that she has been asked to go to client meetings. Employer should minimise risk by only sending employees to covid secure premises or outside and no car sharing! Not sure it’s ok to say no not until everyone is vaccinated, the business might have folded before then