AIBU - England couldn’t care less about Northern Ireland

[ThisThatTheOther]

Northern Ireland has seen a return to violence , petrol bombs etc every night for a week now. It’s dominated the headlines here in Ireland. People are worried as peace up north is so fragile. Listening to the radio yesterday an old advisor of Tony Blair was on to discuss. The radio host read out the top 8 listed stories on all main English sites and the violence of Northern Ireland didn’t even feature. It’s the top headline again in all major Irish publications this morning but not in English publications.

@2bazookas

England does care. We all should.

This latest shits in the faces of those of us in Ireland and mainland Britain who endured years of bombings shootings murders deaths fear and prejudice and painful politics to find a resolution.

Apparently we did it for nothing.

Some new generation of mindless morons who know fuck all about their own dismal history, wants to do it all over again. For what!

I think you know fuck all about what is going on at the minute to be fair.

I don't agree at all with the rioting and the violence, but there are certainly major issues going on to trigger it, issues that need to be dealt with and not ignored and dismissed. Your "for what" is insulting.

England does not really care or really get it. I say that as an English person who is quite interested in politics. I have to confess to not really understanding the NI government set up. I understand a lot of the history but it feels very far away when in fact Belfast is nearer geographically than London to my house.

Reading some of these stories thinking about what you must have went through is really eye opening.

I have a brother in the army, he joined after the troubles and always said he really hoped he was never deployed to NI. He's also catholic.

To all who lost relatives I'm sorry. This cannot happen again.

I have a question and if it's out of line please do tell me but do you that live there bring your children up with the catholic/Protestant views? I ask as I very much was taught the orange order bad etc and I was in glasgow. My kids no nothing of it and I'm determined they will never hear that sort of stuff

Seeing as Ireland was partitioned into the republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, fairly recently in the grand scheme of things. 100 years ago, I wonder will Northern Ireland ever go back to being owned by Ireland.

It is such a hard one to solve, because it such a 50/50 split.
I know that 50% of Northern Ireland consider themselves to be British and want to stay part of the UK.
And I know that 50% of Northern Ireland consider themselves to be
Irish.

So is it fair to make the Unionists be part of an Irish republic, if they don't want to be, no. But is it currently fair to make the Irish people in Northern Ireland be part of the UK. No, but it is probably easier to let that continue, as it is what is in place now.

So I don't see it leaving the UK any time soon.

It is such a unique situation really isn't it, I don't think that there is a similiar situation in any other country in Europe right now.

@IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021

Reading some of these stories thinking about what you must have went through is really eye opening.

I have a brother in the army, he joined after the troubles and always said he really hoped he was never deployed to NI. He's also catholic.

To all who lost relatives I'm sorry. This cannot happen again.

I have a question and if it's out of line please do tell me but do you that live there bring your children up with the catholic/Protestant views? I ask as I very much was taught the orange order bad etc and I was in glasgow. My kids no nothing of it and I'm determined they will never hear that sort of stuff

The schools over here are very much either Protestant schools or Catholic schools. As much as claim to be all inclusive, it definitely isn't the case and obviously there is teaching bias on either side. There are more and more integrated schools but they are the minority.

For example, I went to a protestant secondary school. It wasn't until I went to uni and lived in halls with students from Catholic schools that I realised the differences in our teaching. The major one the springs to mind was how we were taught about Bloody Sunday and the hunger strikers.

An interesting old Twitter thread from 2018 resurfaced on my timeline from Patrick Kielty directed at Boris... worth a glance if you are interested. Almost like it was predicted...

twitter.com/patrickielty/status/1045782711816708096?s=21

Thanks @PADH so any progression is basically been wiped out recently?

I didn't learn about Bloody Sunday until I watched a documentary. I'm in my 30's. Growing up it was very much we are catholics we are good. Question the narrative and your a turncoat.

Imagine how things would be if ALL people in NI just put their energy into a better country for EVERYONE living there whether catholic/protestant/non religious and from wherever they came hundreds of years ago..... Much easier to just keep the hate going and the division going on and on and on through the generations - very sad and inward looking.

A lot of people on NI are working very hard to do this. And have been for a long time. There will always be a minority who make a big noise and cause a disproportionate amount of trouble. You will never find a county where everyone is working towards one goal, not even England. Right?

The day after the vote,when those fools who instigated the whole thing were staggering about looking dazed,it was so obvious Ireland was an after thought.Actually a not thought.

It’s not even that English people don’t care. They’re completely unaware. I was brought up in NI and came to England to do a masters, met an English man, got married and stayed here. In NI we were fully aware of the whole Loyalist/National tensions, and the Loyalist loyalty to being British. I was really surprised to see that people here hadn’t a clue and didn’t give a damn about these people and barely knew of their existence- indeed many people didn’t even know that NI and Ireland were two different countries and couldn’t explain the relationship between them, even if they’d wanted to. It’s like many Loyalist NI people have limerance for a Britain which barely knows they exist.

@implantsandaDyson

I've completely different memories Sarah I was terrified as a child. Don't hang about near parked cars, don't pick anything up off the street, shit playgrounds, no infrastructure, no decent shops, metal turnstiles into town, bombscares in school, stones thrown at buses, soldiers checking buses, soldiers in my garden asking teenage girls where they were going if they were out, sitting in traffic at checkpoints, not driving too close to a police land rover incase a petrol bomb was thrown.

And yes I'm sure lots of young soldiers were very scared, most of them were little more than 18/19 years old but let's not kid ourselves. The first people who called me a sectarian slur and used sexually explicit language to me, shouted out the back of a jeep were soldiers. They already thought I was less than them. I didn't think any of it was exciting.

You were there for far longer than me. I only lived in Northern Ireland for one year during the troubles, as my parents moved there for work. Probably because I had not lived in a situation like that up until that time, and then I left a year afterwards, it seemed like an adventure to me.

If you lived there all of your life, and saw it all the time , I am sure it was very difficult.

@Sarahtrue11

Seeing as Ireland was partitioned into the republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, fairly recently in the grand scheme of things. 100 years ago, I wonder will Northern Ireland ever go back to being owned by Ireland.

It is such a hard one to solve, because it such a 50/50 split.
I know that 50% of Northern Ireland consider themselves to be British and want to stay part of the UK.
And I know that 50% of Northern Ireland consider themselves to be
Irish.

So is it fair to make the Unionists be part of an Irish republic, if they don't want to be, no. But is it currently fair to make the Irish people in Northern Ireland be part of the UK. No, but it is probably easier to let that continue, as it is what is in place now.

So I don't see it leaving the UK any time soon.

It is such a unique situation really isn't it, I don't think that there is a similiar situation in any other country in Europe right now.

We currently all have dual citizenship, with a soft border with Ireland so it has been ticking along well(ish).

This however is where Brexit has been disastrous for us, because a hard border had to be put in place somewhere - a land one between the north and south, or a sea one between the 2 islands. Wherever was picked is a massive political statement with huge repercussions.

So when you said, its easier to continue as is, with what's in place now - well, that's gone now already, brexit has seen to that.

That's a brilliant thread.
The whole brexit referendum and ensuing contempt for the rest of the UK has made me totally ashamed to be English.

X post - the patrick kielty thread

@SarahBellam

It’s not even that English people don’t care. They’re completely unaware. I was brought up in NI and came to England to do a masters, met an English man, got married and stayed here. In NI we were fully aware of the whole Loyalist/National tensions, and the Loyalist loyalty to being British. I was really surprised to see that people here hadn’t a clue and didn’t give a damn about these people and barely knew of their existence- indeed many people didn’t even know that NI and Ireland were two different countries and couldn’t explain the relationship between them, even if they’d wanted to. It’s like many Loyalist NI people have limerance for a Britain which barely knows they exist.

But why is it that unusual.

If you ask anyone in Northern Ireland to tell you what is happening in Wales, they would not be able to tell you.

@Mamimawr

If the English media gave it the attention it deserves then they would have to admit that Brexit was a huge mistake and they don't want to do that.

English (and British) media has been full of it. Stop trying to deflect this into a "Brexit issue"; it isn't.

@IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021

Thanks *@PADH* so any progression is basically been wiped out recently?

I didn't learn about Bloody Sunday until I watched a documentary. I'm in my 30's. Growing up it was very much we are catholics we are good. Question the narrative and your a turncoat.

I wouldnt say wiped out, but taken a step back. There are many many people here who are fed up with both sides, and our tit for tat politicians who irresponsibilly fuel our differences.

Yes, I definitely agree with your last point - it makes it very hard to make any progress when you can't question "your own side."

But why is it that unusual.

If you ask anyone in Northern Ireland to tell you what is happening in Wales, they would not be able to tell you.

It's unusual because it's about your whole country the UK, it should be taught in Geography class for a start because it's about borders in the UK and it should also be taught in History classes. Also, if there was bombs and violence going on loads in Wales and I was from somewhere else in the UK, yeah I'd expect to know it was happening and why?

English (and British) media has been full of it.
Stop trying to deflect this into a "Brexit issue"; it isn't.

How is it NOT a Brexit issue??!! Why do you think the riots are happening?

@AryaStarkWolf

English (and British) media has been full of it. Stop trying to deflect this into a "Brexit issue"; it isn't.

How is it NOT a Brexit issue??!! Why do you think the riots are happening?

Well, these riots are due to the handling of the Bobby Storey funeral, not brexit itself.

Brexit has however been increasing tensions regarding the border issue etc

The reason why it doesn’t have traction in England is because we don’t get it. We don’t have this religious conflict. It doesn’t matter to the majority of people here if you are Catholic or Protestant.

Westminster should have stopped supporting the politicians in Stormont in the early 1970s; in the end they were persuaded 40 years later to accept a similar deal. NI politics isn’t going shift or change radically. People still vote sectarian, you get sectarianism. Not surprising and all these tactics are the same. Trashing their own country for power. I think that mentality is bad, but I don’t think it’s anything to do with England.

@AryaStarkWolf

But why is it that unusual.

If you ask anyone in Northern Ireland to tell you what is happening in Wales, they would not be able to tell you.

It's unusual because it's about your whole country the UK, it should be taught in Geography class for a start because it's about borders in the UK and it should also be taught in History classes. Also, if there was bombs and violence going on loads in Wales and I was from somewhere else in the UK, yeah I'd expect to know it was happening and why?

yeah but you say "it is about your whole country - the UK", but I think that all four countries in the Uk do not consider themselves to be one country anyway.

For example, any time that I have visited Scotland, many people there have told me that they see Scotland as a very independent country, and do not see themselves as connected to Wales, England or Northern Ireland in any way at all.

The UK is unique in that it is a sovereign state made up of four different countries, which are countries in their own right. So I don't think that many people in Wales or England see what is happening in Northern Ireland as very relevant to them. And I don't think that many people in Northern Ireland see what is happening in Wales as relevant to them.

If you ask anyone in Northern Ireland to tell you what is happening in Wales, they would not be able to tell you

If there were days of riots and a risk of a return to serious civil unrest then yes, we would know.

tit for tat politicians who irresponsibilly fuel our differences

Like yesterday's tweet from Arlene Foster: "This is not protest. This is vandalism and attempted murder. These actions do not represent unionism or loyalism. They are an embarrassment to Northern Ireland and only serve to take the focus off the real law breakers in Sinn Fein.
My thoughts are with the bus driver."

FFS.

*But why is it that unusual.

If you ask anyone in Northern Ireland to tell you what is happening in Wales, they would not be able to tell you.*

It might not be unusual in England to not know about anything that happens outside of England but in lots of other places we take an interest in what happens outside of our country too. I am in Ireland and I can tell you about the riots in NI. Not my country but I still know about it. If there were riots in Scotland, England or Wales I would know about it too.
Some people read the news and take an active interest in the world, especially when things are happening in countries that are so close geographically to you, certainly I would imagine that people in the UK would take an interest in other UK countries, there are only 4 after all. It is mind blowing to me that lots of people in the UK don't even know all 4 countries in the UK. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.