To think there is too much pressure to formula feed?

[daffodilsandprimroses]

I’ve been considering making this post for a while but was worried about being flamed - I probably will be.

I am definitely not speaking to or about the women who made a choice to formula feed, either from the start or after trying breastfeeding and deciding it wasn’t for them.

I am talking about the women like me who really wanted to breastfeed and tried.

I found the midwives were very quick to leap to pushing formula once breastfeeding wasn’t working. When ds lost weight after birth rather than helping support me to feed him we were put on a feeding plan involving formula.

Why is there no support for breastfeeding?

I’m a midwife and have had children. I often found a push to give formula by society, family, hospital staff (paed nurses on paed ward). I also see this in practice with midwives, albeit a lot is to do with lack of time to sit with women and helps with feeding/make plans/etc etc

I agree OP. I have a 6yo I bf for a year and an currently bf my 5 week old.
I feel that wanting to bf was all on me and there wasn’t much/any support from health professionals- anything I wanted to find out about breastfeeding, I did myself.
For example no one told me to prepare what to wear when breastfeeding. Most of my maternity clothing or normal tops are not suitable to feed in or would be fiddly/revealing. I learned that myself the first time so this time I was prepared. Just a small thing that I think would make a big difference to women wanting to bf, especially out and about.

Two recent examples the support your view:

• When I was pregnant, the Health Visitor came round for a visit, she asked how I was planning to feed. When I said breastfeeding, the first thing she said was “Oh yes but you can always give a few bottles so that dad can do some feeding too, to help him bond with baby!” I was like wtf? There’s plenty of ways he can bond with baby that still support breastfeeding (she didn’t specify whether she meant a bottle of formula or of expressed breast milk but either way it isn’t the most supportive breastfeeding message before the baby is even born).

-On my local maternity department Facebook page, on a recent post asking people’s views on the facilities there etc (so the post wasn’t specifically about any type of feeding, the conversation just veered off that way), I noticed one women had posted that she’s bottle fed all of her babies from newborn and that one of the main factors in her decision was that she believed she would be discharged more quickly- she mentioned getting home 6 hours after birth, whereas she’d “heard” that if you breastfeed they “don’t let you” leave until bf established. I just thought such a shame that that had had an impact on her feeding choice, it’s not true and a health professional could’ve easily chatted to her about it.

Bf is definitely pushed until birth and then as soon as there’s a problem they push ff. with my firstvmy milk didn’t come in for days so some formula was needed.
My second lost huge amounts of weight thankfully there was a very pro bf consultant and as the problem was cmpa. Even he was surprised when I said I would be bf until at least a year old.
People think you are very odd for extended bf, generally they mean anything beyond 6 months. Should switch to bottle feeding, in the same lecture they go on about how lazy and unhealthy it is to not make your own baby purée for weaning. So jars of baby food are unhealthy and formula is really healthy!
Jars of baby food are really bad for babies. Bf is pointless past 6 months
You’re bf for yourself not for the baby
Oh and your husband will leave because it’s not natural and he wants your boobies back!
I feel like saying fuck off, I’ve made these choices baby is fine. You would make different choices also fine but fuck off and leave me alone
Rant over.

Found the total opposite here. My DN nearly died because my sister was a young mum determined to breastfeed and the HV kept encouraging her even when DN didn’t gain weight for weeks. Turns out my sister is one of those rare people who don’t produce much / any milk. When she finally switched to formula (after her DD was finally labelled failure to thrive... even then they just referred DS to a lactation clinic and did not recommend formula) DN I started gaining weight immediately and DS had no sore and leaky boobs like you normally do when you quit feeding.

I found the opposite. I didn’t want to bf at all and they wouldn’t leave me alone about it. I woke up after having my first to find the mw trying to latch her on and I went mental.

I know breast is best and felt bad for not doing it but I am painfully shy and what they didn’t know was my now ex was sexually abusive and I couldn’t stand being touched (still struggle to this day).

I agree. My baby was jaundice at a day old and had to have phototherapy. I was having trouble latching on and so was encouraged to give formula to flush out the jaundice. I was happy to do so as the care was pretty poor and I just wanted to get home (first lockdown so no visitors etc). Day 4 we were allowed home and I had been manually expressing every 2 hours day and night to keep a supply up. I asked the midwives about how to go about getting back to breastfeeding and they were very discouraging of it and basically threatened that the jaundice would come back if I didn’t give formula.
Luckily it’s not my first baby, I failed at breastfeeding with my first and was determined to succeed this time round. I got home and just fed and fed and fed. We did 9 months ebf before I had to go back to work. There was no help or encouragement by any health professionals which I found quite disheartening.

It's far from the only factor contributing to low BF rates in the UK but why should the general public believe in the benefits of EBF when the HCPs who look after neonates and postpartum women don't act like they believe in them?

Why is there so little donor milk available? Why aren't people who don't produce any milk offered any medical investigations?

@SnuggyBuggy you make a very valid and interesting point.

In between pregnancies I sought help from a milk bank as I suspected I’d have similar issues BFing second time round. I had to push my GP for a referral to a breast clinic for an ultrasound, which revealed minimal glandular tissue in either breast. Unhelpfully the nurse I saw stated it was “within normal range” when my dismal failure to feed my first baby would suggest the opposite.

With this result and the milk bank not answering my calls and emails (I suspect COVID related) I gave up pursuing it and pushed all my effort into maximising production of any milk I could, which it turned out wasn’t much.

If just one professional had said to me, your breasts are the problem and you probably won’t ever be able to exclusively BF, it would have been so much easier to make peace with it all. Left not knowing and with the implication from some that I just didn’t try hard enough, is very difficult.

If donor milk was more easily accessible and screened for all I would have been over the moon.

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, this is just another perspective.

I’m 24 wks pg currently and find the opposite is true. BF is being pushed at me and there doesn’t seem to be any info on FF given. Midwife at booking appt stated “so you will be BF won’t you” to which I responded “I’m unsure yet but there’s plenty of time to decide”. She then wrote BF on my notes so I had to tell her to change it as that quite clearly isn’t what I said.
I will be FF for various reasons and am planning to give the colostrum while in hospital after the birth. I’m very happy with my decision on this.
I’ve been asked by in MIL/ SIL whether I’ll be BF (SIL is still BF/ MF now at 14 months) so I’ve batted them both off for now. DM asked the same at the weekend and I’ve explained to her why I won’t be. The fact is, I and others shouldn’t have to explain ourselves or justify a decision about BF or FF. in my opinion, fed is best and individuals need to decide what’s best for them. Luckily for me I’ll have no qualms in telling midwives/ medics etc what I’ll be doing and as an older first time mum (42) perhaps this is why I won’t be pushed on this but that said, it’s hard to keep justifying yourself and really, women shouldn’t have to, however they decide to feed their child.

@Vursayles because I had the audacity to feed them formula to keep them alive.

Is anyone here or anywhere else suggesting that you didn’t do the best for your baby? I don’t think they are. You kept them alive, that’s priority number 1 as parent. My comment on page 2 or something said there needs to be more research into why some breasts don’t work the same as others even though biologically similar.

@JenerationH Google Scholar has an abundance of information available if anyone is interested, it’s hard to digest as it’s of a technical nature but if you have time and actually care then it’s a good place to start. People write articles for all sorts of reasons but I particularly stay away from someone with absolutely no medical/biology background giving an opinion on my breasts and their milk (I haven’t read the link).

Even with peer reviewed articles/journal posts/research, with a little digging you can find out who funded it: like in the USA the dairy industry directly funding research into the human bodies calcium requirements amongst other things.

Everyone is trying to sell you something, and it’s not difficult to get official research to help you sell the product when you have enough cash. Almost everything is available online if you know where to look.

Nobody is making money out of women like the posters here who breastfeed, there is absolutely no point in them researching why some breasts don’t work, nobody will profit. Take a look at cow & gates profits certainly more than women spend on a few extra snacks whilst breastfeeding.

They’re banned from advertising so they make a pointless product that still allows them to advertise and stay on tv/YouTube/radio/phone ads.

There are some really sad stories on here

It’s interesting as I don’t remember there being any pressure to breastfeed in pregnancy but then everything was all over the place due to covid. I did have a long conversation with a midwife as I have thalassemia which was unexpected! But I honestly don’t once remember being asked how I wanted to feed my baby.

I didn’t get skin to skin with him after he was born which does still make me sad because it was the only thing I wanted.

Anyways onwards and upwards, I suppose!

There’s definitely a formula culture but at the risk of getting flamed I don’t know what to do about it because people do get really upset.

Look at the following scenarios

i am breastfeeding my DS and I’m shattered! He wakes up every hour for a feed and it’s breaking me - help!

I can guarantee when someone posts that there will be cheery friendly posts saying you can formula feed, it doesn’t matter, my DS was formula fed from birth and is strong as an ox / never had a day off school, etc.

Then someone says

i am pregnant, what’s the cheapest type of formula milk as money is very tight? Also, we live a fair distance from any shops so I need something I can bulk buy.

You say ‘have you considered breastfeeding? It’s free! And it’s always there!^ And you get flamed for ‘pushing’ breastfeeding, for being a ‘breastfeeding nazi’, shouted at because ‘if OP wanted to breastfeed I’m sure she would have said so.’

This is what I mean about formula feeding being pushed. It can be very insidious and it can come from a good place but I do think it’s a contributory factor in why breastfeeding rates are so low.

I think this is why it doesn't help to say nothing about formula feeding in the antenatal stage. I even wonder if it gives some people the idea that information is being kept from them because it's so good they are worried it might tempt them away from breastfeeding.

I'd love to see an honest discussion of the lifestyle pros and cons of both methods as there are different benefits and costs to both and people should be making an informed choice.

Your latest post had definitely hit the nail on the head op.

I have a friend who always used to ask me if I'm 'still' breastfeeding complete with unimpressed look whenever I said yes. She FF her ds and I'd happily bet my house on the fact that no-one ever asked her if she was still FF, she was just allowed to get on with things. It's not fair.

Absolute opposite- from the moment I mentioned ff I was taken aside and given talks, it was the first thing brought up when I'd go to the hospital for scans, there were pursed lips and cajoling and 'do I understand the benefits?' as they were explained for the hundredth time. Then after the birth: 'are you sure?Will we try? You do know (explains again)' And this was different nurses and midwives each time

I agree with you OP. First baby lost weight and I gave formula top ups as instructed. Second baby lost weight and I refused. Kept on breastfeeding and baby gained and is fine. They seemed to forget that breastfed babies don’t get as much fluid in the first few days compared to formula fed ones. Paediatrician was not worried about baby 2.

Ps I hate these threads because never the Twain shall meet. On ff my kids went to bed and slept very early. I wasn't sore and not as tired as my friends who breast fed, and didn't have to plan where I'd feed. Their dad was fully part of feeding. I dont drink so that wasn't an issue but I could take pain relief without worrying it would impact the baby. Saying that I had a steriliser and bottles and formula to lug about, and there's the cost. The big one is 2 of my children have asthma and I started worrying a few years ago that that was my fault for not breastfeeding or that something would rear it's ugly head in the future. So huge pros but huge cons for me. Saying that I'm waiting to be diagnosed with OCD and asperger's and I still know I wouldn't have handled it. Everyone should look at it all and choose.

everyone should ...choose

You are very welcome to try to find a post of mine that doesn’t stress the choice as being the most important thing of all.

You wanted to formula feed. How would you have felt if the midwives had told you you had to breastfeed?

That was what happened to me in reverse.

This thread has revealed that many don't have a choice because of the unique circumstances around their birth experiences. Either way, depending on where you are there is a lot of guilt and anxiety about bf/ff.

Looking back, I put myself under a lot of pressure to bf and the guilt and upset I felt for physically not being able to was immense. I am the only one of my friends and social group who switched to exclusively ff after a few weeks. I was in so much physical pain from the c section that saved both of our lives and I was on a range of medication and having to inject myself daily for six weeks as part of my recovery. That combined with not being able to produce much milk just meant that I didn't stand a chance. I won't be alone in my experience. So, not everyone has a choice. If people don't want to bf there is absolutely nothing wrong with that either and absolutely no justification is needed. We should be supporting one another not passing judgement - as some do. Not everyone though obviously!

@JenerationH you say that the medical professionals are giving advice without knowing the evidence. Who is advising them? There is absolutely no benefit to anyone to push breastfeeding. Companies like Cow and Gate have huge sums of money to fund research and to influence public health advice, but despite that the advice is still very pro breastfeeding.
It's actually one area where you know there is no ulterior motive.
The government's recommended dietary advice is heavily influenced by lobbying from food manufacturers, these companies are rich and powerful and have influence, yet STILL all health organisation recommend breastfeeding. Why is that if all the research is useless and misleading?
Emily Oster is trying to sell books. She is making a lot of money cherry picking data and telling people what they want to hear, same with 'cry it out' by the looks of it.
You were sent a link to multiple studies on the gut microbiome and you said you didn't want a meta-analysis, well what did you want? That was a summary of a lot of different studies and was actually quite interesting.
Noone is saying that formula is unhealthy. Babies thrive on both formula and breast milk of course they do, but it's important people are given the real information and support they need.

@somuchcoffeeneeded

I agree with you OP. First baby lost weight and I gave formula top ups as instructed. Second baby lost weight and I refused. Kept on breastfeeding and baby gained and is fine. They seemed to forget that breastfed babies don’t get as much fluid in the first few days compared to formula fed ones. Paediatrician was not worried about baby 2.

Were you in hospital for a few days? I went home the next day so the weight business was not an issue. I thought all babies lose weight in the first week of life anyway.

'I dont drink so that wasn't an issue but I could take pain relief without worrying it would impact the baby. '

You can drink alcohol and take pain medication while breastfeeding.

Not blaming you for this @stayathomer but this sort of misinformation is damaging to everyones understanding breastfeeding and likely shapes people's opinions on it.

This all stems from the formula companies being allowed to market their products unethically, and give large financial contributions to the government so that breastfeeding support isn't adequately funded. Formula milk is big business. Unfortunately. And some of the comments on here with regards to how it helps to give formula for the health of the baby, are often what people tell themselves to support what they did in supplementing their baby. They probably had no choice due to lack of knowledge and support in how to establish breastfeeding, but comments that support formula milk and how mums shouldn't feel guilty, don't help fight against the lack of breastfeeding support when and where it is needed (antenatally and postnatally). I support the use of formula when it is truly needed, but often I see it used when it isn't needed. I am a midwife and lactation consultant.

I agree @LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus. So often on threads like these, you'll read comments along the lines of 'I had to supplement with formula because my milk still hadn't come in on day 2'. There is such a lack of knowledge antenatally about even the most basic concepts of BF (no blame on individuals intended here by the way).