To ask if anyone here is a SENDco or has experience with SEN in school?

[Leviooosaaah]

I’ve posted before about my eldest DS who is about to start secondary and has SEN; I got some fantastic advice and I’m going to contact his secondary school next week when they open to discuss support. I want to be prepared so I’m turning to you lovely lot again.

We have the following:

He is selectively mute and receiving SALT for this.

He finds it impossible to make new friends (he has friends but these friends are starting to outgrow him so I don’t think they will last much longer).

He has daily explosive meltdowns including throwing things and banging things as he is so wound up from school.

He is unable organise himself, find his own clothes or socks, or regulate his own homework. It causes arguments if we try to encourage him to do this.

He is unable to get himself out of the bath or shower and get himself dried; he relies on me to do this and it has to be done a certain way. Any encouragement to get him to do it himself results in crying and shrieking.

He will not leave the house and hates to go out.

He will not enter a shop but also does not like to be left to wait in the car . If I walk out of sight in a park or outside of our home , he gets upset and feels like I’ve left him.

Has no desire to play out with his class mates and is impulsive , easily persuaded to do the bidding of others and does not act upon road safety.

He could never (at this stage) get on a bus or buy something independently in a shop.

He refuses to engage in homework on any level and is unable to pack his own school bag.

He can only make a basic sandwich of cheese spread or such like; he can not make toast and needs a lot of supervision. He is unable to “find” things he needs.

He can not describe or verbalise his feelings and has a way of thinking that I can not comprehend at all (I try!). If something goes wrong , his version of events in the way he sees it sounds completely irrational (but is rational to him).

He can not not deal with unexpected changes to his routine and even a minor upset can change his mood for the whole day.

He has to be encouraged, bribed and argued with to conduct simple basic hygiene such as washing and brushing his hair. This causes hours of meltdowns.

Academically he is clever but is attaining average grades and I feel this is hindered by his anxiety and emotional immaturity.

He will categorically not talk about school; even the mention of the word sends him in to shut down and he will not engage in any conversation to help him.

If you are a SENDco , what would you come back to offer us in terms of support?

EHCP appeal is under way but is unlikely to be in place in time for secondary . EHCP aside, would you feel as a school you could meet his needs?

I have mentioned the options of different schooling to him to work out what he thinks is best for him (but I haven’t said he is going to a special school and I’ve talked very positively about the secondary he is going to) . Talking to him about the specialist provision has helped me understand more of what he wants (as he can’t articulate this himself). He has said he feels he will do better in a smaller, quieter class with one teacher but he also wants to go to the appointed school . As I have no EHCP I have no choice but to send him there and hope I can work with the SENDco to get his needs met.

[quote Leviooosaaah]@Soontobe60 they refused to assess as they said he has no learning needs.

I meant I need to unpick his day with him to try to identify why he’s so upset ; this is usually done at bedtime when he’s calmer and more sad than angry . There is no talking to him when he’s angry. I take his lead and try to help him work out what has upset it , I don’t pounce on him as soon as he’s through the door

In respect of his grades , I’ve only mentioned that he’s bright but achieving average on here to outline how he is struggling. I never discuss his grades with him unless it is to praise him for good work . I tell him how proud I am of him for just even attempting something out of his comfort zone so there’s no pressure on him.[/quote]
Have you got a copy of the paperwork that was submitted by the school and/or outside agencies? I know each LA has a different system, I’ve always sent in as much information as possible with all current reports, APDR cycles for the previous year, provision maps showing what the school have spent on supporting the pupil in the previous 12 months. For a pupil where learning isn’t as much of an issue, I focus strongly on SEMH needs, so send in all behaviour incident records, interventions and impact, attendance, everything I think of that can support the application. For a student who struggles to come into school. I would have a record of how often a member of staff needs to support them to come into school. In other words, I send in the kitchen sink!

@Soontobe60 thank you

I do have a copy of the paper work and his school have said they would support a needs assessment but it was still refused. They also sent in a statement of costs for his extra provision (less than £6k) and his learning plans along with his reviews.

I have focused my appeal mainly on SEMH as I can show that his has real problems in daily life caused by his anxiety around school . It’s helpful to know I am on the right track

Hopefully you'll have a supportive Sendco at the new school who will work with you. You can find that out now. If they're not now then that's a red flag.

You can't really do anything differebt for him without the EHCP though as support of the kind you need costs(sure they'll put in support but if his needs are as high as you state then it won't be enough).
All those saying look at specialist schools... it isn't that easy. The local authority will do everything to keep your child in mainstream. In many areas there is nothing for academically able ASC children other than a unit in a mainstream or perhaps a specialist independent miles away. If you are in the southeast (I think you said you were) you are looking at a choice of 5 or so across a large area. The latter will require a fight with LA to fund in your situation. This won't be immediate win. Can take a long time (months to year). They'll want him to try a mainstream first.
The EHCP should be your focus now. Apologies to the Sendcos on here offering supportive advice but many of your are unaware of the steps and fight parents go through to get the support in place for the majority of children. This is why my advice was to gather as much evidence you can yourself as you cant rely on professionaks doing this for you. You should also get the appeal won as most do win on appeal statistically, but it would be stronger if you had your own reports in case they refuse to assess (you didnt say where you were with this). You still have a term to get this moving but its tight. Secondary will require at least 2 terms to assess. So it'll be another year if you wait for them to evidence gather and submit an EHCP NA request. Your son could be struggling by then.
If you appeal and get granted an assessment will they get to go in to school before summer? 20 weeks from now will potentially take you up to start of secondary but you need then to agree to assess while he's in school and at that stage if they issue an EHCP before Sept you can delay his start and name a more suitable school. Once they agree to assess you can have it in mind that he won't be going to the one you picked if you seriously have reservations that it will work. Once they see his EHCP they may not take him either.
Please join some local Facebook forums where you are as other parents can advise on schools etc locally. You'll need this support.

A small point on the post above - secondary might tell you that they require two terms of evidence before applying for an EHCP. The local authority will almost certainly tell them that. But this is not true - the code of practice is clear that all that is needed for a EHC needs asseement is that the child may have SEND. Push back against anyone telling you they need two terms of evidence that a child's needs can't be met.

@Solidaritea
Correct... that's my point. OP will need to push herself. The original question was asking what support she'd get...answer initially not much without EHCP and they won't rush to do one either despite need. Not in any of the SE counties I have experience of. Elsewhere in UK I can't say.

You don't have to have an EHCP to access funding from the high needs block, which allows extra resources if necessary. The difficulty is that the high needs block funding is in demand.

The school need to prove they have put provisions in place and they are not sufficient to meet his educational needs. Most of things you have focused on are not related to school and will not impact echp. Making friends doesnt matter educationally sadly.

If he has coping educationally and isnt educationally delayed you may struggle to get an echp. Again they wont future proof for secondary. I would be talking to secondary school now and see what provisions can be put in place.

What has helped my DC so far is colour coding his timetable and books.

DC takes all his books with him as he cant organise taking different books on different days.

He struggle with homework diary so he takes photos if teacher puts it on the board - got much easier with google classroom as I can see to help him organise.

He has huge planner on his wall which I help him fill in every night.

We practised taking the bus to and from school - noise cancelling headphones are awesome.
We have 5 days worth uniform all hung in wardrobe which we organise at weekend.
Lunch- he always takes a sandwich and prefers to eat alone.

@Lougle he is already accessing funds from the high needs block but unfortunately it’s not enough to help him; he detests school and it makes him so sad it’s heartbreaking to see.

@Hankunamatata I am confused about the whole process. You mention that ECHPs focus on education but is this just purely for academic only ? The research I have done suggests an EHCP can be offered if there is sufficient need in any of the four areas. Social communication, SEMH, cognition and learning and sensory. Have I misunderstood this?

I also thought that if a child’s disability affects their ability to form new social relationships then if SEN support can not remedy this , then an EHCP could be offered. I’m so very confused!

I know the things I’ve listed are at home issues but they are going to have a major impact on his ability to cope at school . School are already aware he has problems at school and are currently spending thousands in SEN support to help him (but less than £6k) .

I have resigned myself to the fact that he will just have to go to the chosen secondary and either sink or swim .

I will be contacting the SENDco next week and will use some of the brilliant ideas on this thread

Also, is it better to be honest with the school about his struggles?

I told MIL today that I plan to bullet point DS needs to pass to the secondary SENDco and she told me I will be creating a bad impression of him . She thinks it is better to just light touch on his difficulties or they will immediately be concerned he is going to be troublesome .

The EHCP is about needs in school. So you need evidence of what those needs are, either observations, reports or things like behaviour logs. Attainment too.
This is what you need for the appeal. You won't be able to appeal the EHCP needs assessment without evidence that school is a struggle or it will be No again. If school apply they have to do this too and the council make their threshold higher. Please look at the IPSEA website.
You don't need a diagnosis of anything to get an EHCP but they do help build a case. The more reports you have the better. Your son's SALT should have reports for example. Were they submitted?
From what you've described your son's home behaviour is caused by school being too much for him. But its difficult if school aren't seeing this - it won't count for anything unfortunately as the local authority don't care about this because they don't need to - that's your problem. That's why I suggested you get your own observations from school. Once he starts secondary it'll become clearer anyway. So if you aren't going to do this then yes you need to still contact the new school yourselves. Your current school may not give an accurate picture from what you say.
Where I live the extra support a child gets just being on a schools 'SEN register' is really limited. Even with EHCP its a fight for resources. Some schools don't want expensive SEN kids. There's so much online about this, its been a crisis issue for years now. You need to arm yourself with the information. Your County will also have a SENDIAS advice/info service who you can call too and get info. Join local groups etc. Everything you get for your son you will personally need to fight for...school will not help you in any meaningful way (some are better than others to be fair). But you are already doing this so keep going!

I know several people currently fighting for year 6 children to get EHCPs for secondary, so its not too late to try and get things to start at least. Or you can ride out the last few weeks of primary and hope to start the battle afresh in Y7.

Your MIL is wrong (my MIL said similar). You want to know if they're going to find the real him a problem NOW so you don't put him through it if they do. The way they view SEN and respond to parental concerns is your guide to how they will be when your child is there. If they're dismissive then don't send him there. I learnt that lesson the hard way.

Absolutely be open and honest with the school.

In terms of requesting an EHCP assessment, the threshold is pretty low:

When should a local authority carry out an EHC needs assessment?
If a local authority (“LA”) is requested to carry out an EHC needs assessment by a parent, young person, school or college, they must consider:
• whether the child or young person has or may have special educational needs (“SEN”); and
• whether they may need special educational provision to be made through an EHC plan.
If the answer to both of these questions is yes, they must carry out an EHC needs assessment.
This test is set out in the law (section 36(8) of the Children and Families Act 2014). This means these are the only questions the LA should be asking when considering whether or not to carry out an EHC needs assessment.

However, most disregard this.....unless you spell it out in full to them. All I did was quote the above and show clear evidence that DS 'may' have SEN and 'may' need specialist education provision in school. I told them that if they didn't assess they were in breach of the above law. Everyone I know who has quoted that seems to get through to assessment stage.

Obviously getting an EHCP is based on the information gathered, more the better.

In terms of academically able children....they absolutely do have to assess regardless of that. My son has a profoundly gifted IQ and at 7 was housed out of the classroom doing maths 5 years above him. His intelligence didn't matter at all when he was too anxious and too over stimulated by the sensory environment of a MS classroom to go through the doors. He now attends a autism specialist school, he's fully integrated into the school, happy, thriving with daily therapy and peers who all get each other. Lightbulb moment for us - school isn't all about GCSE results!

My sister is a tutor for the LEA and the sheer volume of autistic / selectively mute / anxious children who now school refuse / are off rolled / EOTAS etc and the LEA are quite happy to leave them at home with a few hours of tutoring a week - is quite frankly outrageous. It's very common for these children to fall through the net of secondary school if things aren't watertight in primary. I'm shocked your primary hasn't instigated an EHCP assessment before now.

@firepita we may have used the same letter to request assessment (the letter from the IPSEA website). Although I thought I had proved both points of the criteria sufficiently, I was still refused an assessment because he has no learning difficulty and he is not behind his peers .

An FOI request showed that in some local authorities something like 75% EHCP needs assessments were refused first request but of those that appealed something crazy like 85% won on appeal... so really high. It's quite clearly a stalling tactic - why else would the stats show that? It at the very least adds another 6 months on the process each time. Its short term thinking because during those months a child is not supported they deteriorate and some can't even go back to mainstream due to reasons in OP. Every step of the way the aim is to reduce spending on children. The system is set up so that parents have to fight for everything. It's a 'prove the need' not 'let's look at the needs' which is against the spirit of the law/code of practice. (Actually completely amoral... but that's another conversation).
Once they assess then the likelihood of a plan being issued is quite high and plans cost money and are there for the rest of their school days usually. If your child has a plan its a lot harder to just 'kick them out' too as they now have identified needs that you can't pretend don't exist. So you can see why they are not given out readily. Just remember to the local authority your child is literally just a name and a budget on a spreadsheet. I wish that wasn't true. Schools are fighting this reality too but at least a school teacher can go home at the end of the day and not continue the battle on the home front too.

@Nosleeptillbed there is a worrying trend in my LA and others that EHCPs are being issued with no funding attached and section F so vague schools can't obtain anymore funding. They are counting on too many parents not realising.

Can i ask have you looked at pda. It comes under the autism umbrella but is only diagnosed in sone areas.

My ds has asd/ adhd . I believe he has pda. Paralysis is very anxiety related. I spoke to senco about using pda approaches for my ds.

@Sendsystemsucks love the user name... I'm guessing your backstory inspired it.

Yes happening in ours too. Happens everywhere I think (maybe they had a LA memo on it?!). We had our specified hours removed at an annual review and no one noticed as they also changed the design layout of the plan. They did this to scores of children. Completely deliberately so they couldn't be held to the plans. Only got noticed when the provision was removed gradually due to money and we had no grounds to fight back. As they'd removed from a child with limited communication our child couldn't tell us it was removed for months but when they started smashing up the house afterschool it became clear something was seriously going wrong! It's beyond skullduggery... except these are actual disabled children it effects...so not in the least bit funny for anyone.

@Nosleeptillbed my backstory definitely did.

It is an awful tactic. Parents are obliviously happy because they have an ehcp and it literally isn't worth the paper it's written on.

My DD has a surprisingly good section F but the wrong, inappropriate setting. My DS has a shocking section F and apparently there isn't really provision for preschoolers.

The whole system seems futile. If things go badly wrong in secondary school my DS will just refuse to attend. It seems ludicrous that I will have to wait until this happens to be taken seriously when it could be prevented with the right support .

Honestly, I was where you are 12 months ago. Except my son did have an EHCP, but we could not for love or money find an appropriate specialist school place for him. So we tried to send him to the named mainstream, with full-time 1:1 support and it hasn't worked at all. He went into school a few times for short visits in the first week of term. Hasn't been back since and the distress for all of us has been huge.

He did make it to the top of the waiting list for a school we think is appropriate (still 60 min drive away) and we are now waiting for a tribunal hearing next month.

Press on with your EHCP battle. My child has no learning difficulties. He kept up with his peers through primary, in some areas going beyond the wretched "age related expecations". He still got an EHCP at first attempt. It was a terrible one until we took it to tribunal re content, but it did exist.

Meanwhile, do talk to the SENCO. You'll get an idea quickly of whether they are supportive or not. Fwiw, the SENCO at my son's named school wanted to help, it's just they weren't set up to do so. Ultimately, 30 children in a crowded classroom, with many different teachers every day, is what it is.

I realise this all sounds very negative and I don't want to terrify you. I do want to convey that whilst you can do your best with the school you've been given, actually this may not be in your control atm. You may (as above) have to wait for it to fall apart before anyone else will take it seriously. That is wrong and the system is broken, but it's not your fault and you shouldn't blame yourself.