Cars turning left onto side roads

[Wellthatsit]

Do people know that the Highway code is to give way to pedestrians crossing a side road? If it's ambiguous/fine line as to whether a pedestrian has started to cross, or they've stepped out but then hesitate when they see you driving towards them, do you drive on or do you give way?

For the sake of argument, what if we had continued to cross because, say, we had crap eyesight and literally didn't see the car starting to turn. She would have hit us. Who would be at fault? Or more importantly, who would have got hurt?
My understanding as a driver is that I should be able to avoid most hazards by driving slowly enough, leaving enough space, anticipating others actions. If I see a pedestrian near a junction, I assume there is a chance that they will cross; if I get to the junction at the same time as them, I assume there is a chance they will cross; if they look like they are going to or just about to start crossing and have only just noticed me, I do not drive into them, I let them cross.

Sorry @Wellthatsit - I just read the bit where you said it was a similar situation. Should have read a bit more as you said it wasn’t that dramatic so guess that meant no emergency stop.

I would NEVER assume a pedestrian had right of way over a car (except at a proper crossing) simply because in the event of a collision (quite likely if you step out in front of a moving car) then you as a pedestrian are more likely to come off worse...
As a pedestrian, even if a car isn't indicating I usually wait to cross the road.
I have had a car driver shout at me when I crossed the side road (once when I was out running) but he wasn't indicating and wasn't even slowing to take the corner! Now I know I had right of way anyway!!!
As a driver I would look for pedestrians but would be very surprised and probably a little annoyed if they stepped out to cross the road as I came round the corner.
It might be in the highway code but it is not common sense.

And as for cars waving people... grrr. Especially children. NEVER do this. One day it is a genuine "please cross in front of me" the next it is just the driver is picking their nose, the child is squished and there's a five car pile up. Same with "flashing" to let people go. (Always makes me think of the wrong sort of "flashing" )

Give way, of course. You should never enter the side road until you've looked to make sure it's clear. If there's someone about to cross, I wave them on.

@Lurkingforawhile

Sorry *@Wellthatsit* - I just read the bit where you said it was a similar situation. Should have read a bit more as you said it wasn’t that dramatic so guess that meant no emergency stop.

No worries - I am aware that a careful pedestrian would look over their shoulder at every junction well in advance of crossing, which we didn't. It was a bit more cursory, because it was a small side road and the main traffic flow parallel t us has a max speed of 20mph. It was more the fact that even if the driver felt she arrived as we were stepping out, she still expected us to jump back out of the way, and when we didn't, barged across the road, blocking us and then nearly running us over when she sped off.

@thecatsthecats well then you would stand around for ages at the crossing at our high street. It's a free for all (legally as in no one has right of way. Cars signal to pedestrians to go and if you dont, well tough shit, you will just need to wait for ages. We all try to help each other but if you know better than the cars then go for it! I wont bother signalling you across but dont moan when you are stuck there for ages lol

Looking at the rules for pedestrians too, the green cross code does say that pedestrians should stop before they reach the kerb, and to look around and listen, and if traffic is coming to let it pass. At junctions look for traffic about to turn into the road, especially from behind. You only have priority once you have started crossing.

In other words it doesn't mean you can just step out in front of cars because you have "right of way"

OP, sounds like your case was kinda 50/50 really, but you admit to not looking so it may not have been that obvious as the driver started turning that you were just going to keep walking. Both you and the driver should probably have been more aware

Also to add, the driver definitely shouldn't have been an arse about it and tried to barge you out the way!

We had stepped out (it was a small side road and a wide pavemented pedestrian route that we were following - a High Street with plenty of people walking along it). The main road did not have lorries hurtling along it, and the car turning was not under pressure. She did brake as she started to turn as we were also just stepping out at that moment.
We then reacted instinctively with a hesitation, but she had by then braked, so we continued in a kind of 'well, we are in the right, so don't bully us off the road' kind of way, at which point she starting moving again as if to say, 'I only braked to give you time to step back out of my way and I am prepared to run into you if you don't like it'.

To be honest, then with that detail, you were both acting stupidly.
You weren't on a crossing.
You weren't half way across the road.
You'd just put your foot on the road, and the common sense approach would be for the car to continue whilst you paused for a second, and then you cross the road, rather than the car having to wait several seconds for you to cross, potentially with the risk of someone coming into the back of them and you still being hit.

You were doing it to make a point rather than using common sense.

I say that as both a driver, and someone who walks a lot, and to my shame often has one foot on a quietish road before having a proper look. I have the common sense to be able to read the situation and do what is best / quickest for everyone, rather than setting out to cause an issue just to prove a point.

Makes me livid when drivers beep at you or shout something rude because you have the audacity to cross a side road and hold them up for a couple of seconds.

The highway code says pedestrians only have priority if they've started to cross, which is common sense. If I see someone near a junction then I slow down because 50% of the time, people don't look behind them, but I'd always assume the priority was mine if they're still on the pavement.

We had a back and forth argument with a driver last summer who zoomed up behind DH and my son, turning left from a main road into a side road. He missed DH by a whisker.

My argument was that as the pedestrians were already in the road, the driver should have observed this and slowed or ideally waited for them to cross.

The driver argued back and said we should have been watching for traffic. Basically didn't think he needed to slow down at all. He said we shouldn't have been in the road when he was driving on it, and that he was indicating.

His car wasn't turning when DH and DS stepped out, they had already stepped out before he began turning in.

I argued back that he was driving 2 tonnes of metal and all drivers must surely give way to pedestrians as a matter of courtesy, it takes a second to press the brake pedal and prevent an accident.

He said that if he had slowed or stopped his car then drivers behind him could have driven into his car.

I was extremely angry, not helped by DH having been knocked off his bike and left in the road the week before (the reason he was crossing the road slowly in fact as his leg was still healing!). The driver wouldn't back down and in the end I said to leave it, we were going round in circles. I was so mad though, but probably emotion was clouding my arguments as it does in the heat of the moment.

Ahh I've been in a few situations sort of similar OP. Usually when I'm in the middle of the road crossing, often with a pram, and a car just turns in too fast, and excepts me to just blitz the rest of the road rather than any intention on their part to slow down or wait. I always wonder what would happen if I hadn't seen/heard them or wasn't physically capable of speeding up to the extent needed to finish crossing in time? I guess they'd ultimately need to do an emergency stop or they'd hit me. I'm a learner driver as well so I've been on both sides of this but I don't behave like those people. As PP if I'm about to turn left into a side street I adjust my speed accordingly because I anticipate there may well be someone crossing that I might need to stop for. I do see lots of pedestrians cross without paying any attention and I get that's annoying but their safety is still more important than me being 2 seconds quicker down the road so if there's any doubt at all that they're not waiting, then I will let them cross in good time.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yes You stop and let them clear the road. Their choice which way they go!

A couple of years ago I was crossing a side road. A car came up behind me and the driver stopped and beeped, wound down his window and shouted something like "You need new glasses love, get out of the road"

As he had stopped to chat I thought I'd oblige and told him he was wrong, I had right of way, that he needed to be more aware of hazards in the road, and that included older women with spectacles.

His passenger in the back got out out laughing and said "Good one, Miss. XXX you drive like a twat"

It's one of the joys of having been a teacher

To which the correct reply is 'It takes one to know one'.

I've always been mindful of cars turning into side roads that I'm crossing.

But, in reply to the post about pedestrians moving further down the pavement to make the crossing safely so that cars don't have to get caught with 'bum half out' into the main road...The road we live on is off a main road and has a pavement on one side and the back fences of houses on the other side. Except at the crossing slope, which is at the junction with the main road, where there is a pavement going at 90 degrees to the turning. If we did move further down the pavement to cross we'd be crossing onto an area with no pavement. So we cross at the junction. It has slopes for prams etc so is obviously the place to cross.

And even looking doesn't always work. When DS was a baby I was crossing a side road. I was walking towards traffic - so the cars turning left were approaching me. I checked the road. One car about to pull out of the side road, all the other cars not indicating a turn and a steady stream of traffic on the main road all passing the side road. So I went behind the car about to pull out and just as I got past him into the centre of the side road, a woman pulled into the road, turning left. No indicator. I only realised she was about to turn because I saw her front wheels turn very briefly. She slammed the brakes on - luckily I still had the cover of the car in front of me and had pulled DS back in his pram. The driver who was turning out of the side road (the car I was crossing behind) gave her a mouthful as did I. The reason she'd not indicated? She was balancing a mobile to her ear, turning the wheel with her arm whilst she changed gear with her free hand! No way she could have indicated unless she was an octopus. Had I not noticed those wheels turning, DS would have been under her car in his pram as she'd not even touched the brakes.

It's actually pretty easy, if pedestrians are nearing a side road, for a driver to slow down to make the turn safely. Just a touch on the brakes. After all, you wouldn't pull out of the centre lane directly in the path of a lorry on a motorway would you? You'd adapt your speed to allow the lorry to pass or for you to get in front of it safely. If you were turning right you'd either adapt your speed so a car coming straight on would go past, so you wouldn't have to stop and wait. Or you'd put your brakes on.

And the number of times DH or I have been behind someone in our car and have said 'we'll presume you're turning left then shall we' as drivers seem to have forgotten they have an indicator lever. Many car drivers don't seem to use them when they know a car is trying to decide which way they're going - you can see why they'd not be bothered about a pedestrian.

The worst time is when you're waiting to cross a main road in the pouring rain. A lull in the traffic coming in one direction but a car on the opposite lane. So you wait and the b@gger decides to turn into a road a few metres before you, no indicator. Usually at that point the traffic builds up on the other side of the road! Soaking wet, getting cold and someone in a tin box nice and dry just pootles off. Infuriating.

Interesting to hear people's views. I get that it's probably best to get out of the way if it's not 100 per cent clear who has priority, but it just annoys me that there are so many drivers who behave so entitled simply because they have the power to do so. I bet that woman wouldn't have barged into me and stamped on my foot if she was just a fellow pedestrian and I had got in her way. Our town and cities are designed to prioritise the car all the time. It ruins otherwise nice environments, and discourages active travel like walking.
I wish there were more drivers like this guy:

Had I not noticed those wheels turning

That was a tip my brother gave me years ago. He used to ride a motorbike, and he said, when approaching a line of parked cars, always watch the front wheels, as that's your first clue that someone's about to pull out in front of you.

My father used to say 'assume that everyone else on the road is an idiot'.

If I'm crossing the road I check all directions to see if a car is turning, and check their indicators. I don't cross If I think a car is turning.

If someone is already crossing the road, I don't run them over. If someone is stood waiting to cross, or stood near the road, I don't let them cross, the car behind me is expecting me to turn, not stop and won't be watching the road where I'm going.

You need to check there's not cars turning before crossing the road, sounds like this is a common issue for you so yeah I'd say you're doing something wrong. You have right of way on a zebra crossing, you know you still need to check the cars are stopping right?

It might be in the highway code but it is not common sense

But it is common sense - the end of the road is the continuation of the pavement.

I would really like this to be enshrined in the new highway code, along with priority for cyclists on cycle paths, too. It is so frustrating having to stop at every junction. Cars should give way to pedestrians and cyclists at junctions, not the other way round.

If someone is stood waiting to cross, or stood near the road, I don't let them cross, the car behind me is expecting me to turn, not stop and won't be watching the road where I'm going the car behind you should be able to see the side road and should not be so close that they can't stop if you pause before you turn in anyway. In any event a rear end shunt is less of a problem than running down a pedestrian!

@Wellthatsit OMG, love the zen driver! I relate :) I possibly swear a bit more though

..... particularly driving through London

@NiceTwin

I'd like to hope a pedestrian wouldn't cross too close to the junction, I had my car written off because of this. Car a few in front of me turned and stopped with his back end sticking out. Busy A road meant we had to stop too. Car behind me didn't bother stopping, hit me so hard, the car crumpled. Sad day, loved that car.

Had pedestrian just been a little further up the street, all would have been fine.

Surely the car that turned was at fault, not the pedestrian?

SIL was knocked over and badly bruised by someone who reversed from a main road into a side road without looking. It all happened very quickly and she had no idea he was about to move until he suddenly went into reverse and sped off backwards around the corner. Of course it was 'her fault' according to the driver and she was so shocked she hadn't got time to get his details after picking herself off the ground.

I had to do an emergency stop the other day when two pedestrians stepped out in front of me on a side road, as I was turning off from the main road. I was shocked, so I beeped and then got a load of abuse. I don’t feel comfortable stopping on the main road as I know a large lorry or van may well go into the back of me. I know that it would be their fault, but I don’t want to be injured. For that reason I don’t tend to stop for pedestrians who are waiting to cross the road if it’s not a crossing, and I don’t expect drivers to do that for me.

You should never be turning into a side road at such speed that you need to do an emergency stop. Maybe it won't be a pedestrian next time, maybe it'll be a sink hole in the road, or a police block, or a removal van. Whenever you turn off the main road, you do it slowly, until you can see that the way is clear.

And no one will be running into the back of you if you slow early enough and indicate. It's not about you feeling 'uncomfortable' it's about saving people's lives by not driving dangerously.