Page 2 | Cars turning left onto side roads

lljkk · 07/04/2021 14:49

I had an argument with a driving instructor about this... he insisted I had no RoW. Doesn't matter who had RoW if you're dead.

puffinkoala · 07/04/2021 14:50

@Wellthatsit

Do people know that the Highway code is to give way to pedestrians crossing a side road? If it's ambiguous/fine line as to whether a pedestrian has started to cross, or they've stepped out but then hesitate when they see you driving towards them, do you drive on or do you give way?

No they don't OP. It's a continual source of annoyance to me when I am half-way across a road and they just drive at me.

It also applies if you are turning right, though I'll give way to them if I see them indicating.

Indicating doesn't give you priority either - lots of drivers seem to think it does.

I hope that this is made very clear in the revised Highway Code. It is already there, but clearly not clear enough.

(and if you are driving along and see a driver waiting to cross the road into a side road in front of you, please don't call them on if a pedestrian is crossing that road)

puffinkoala · 07/04/2021 14:51

@lljkk

I had an argument with a driving instructor about this... he insisted I had no RoW. Doesn't matter who had RoW if you're dead.

Very true but the driver is the one in the big metal box on wheels, so should drive with consideration and safety in mind. Not with the usual "I have a expensive car so you don't matter" mentality.

expectopelargonium · 07/04/2021 14:51

As a pedestrian, I assume that all drivers are twits, and I would never attempt to cross the road that close to a junction. If there was no alternative, then I'd make sure that there were no cars coming before I started to cross.

As a driver, I assume that pedestrians are twits, and watch out for people stepping into the road without looking.

BackforGood · 07/04/2021 14:52

With these threads, you are obviously picturing one scenario and one junction.

I mean, whenever I am driving, if there is someone or something in the road then I (and I'd like to assume ALL) drivers will stop rather than ploughing into someone
BUT
if you are a pedestrian then the onus is on you to look at what is turning off the main road into the road you are crossing, if you are crossing that near the junction, and to NOT step out until it is clear.

I understand technically it is the right of way of a pedestrian when they are on a zebra crossing BUT I know I'm the one likely to be more damaged in a car vs pedestrian so I would make sure it was clear or traffic stopped before stepping out.
Technically a toddler shouldn't run out into a road, but as a driver, you should be aware of them at any point when you are driving, and be ready to stop.

puffinkoala · 07/04/2021 14:54

@Wynturphelle

I'd let the pedestrian continue.

However, 90% of the time I turn left in to my street the pedestrians never turn their heads to check the main road for traffic indicating left before they start to cross. They just amble into the road. I don't think the highway code falls in their favour for poor road sense but I'd rather not collide with them to find out.

Because technically they don't need to. If they turn before you get there, indicating or not, they have right of way. But as the pp said, it doesn't much matter if you get squashed.

The other one is when a car comes along and doesn't let you go across before they turn in and then, having turned in, proceeds to move as slowly as they possibly can. I generally don't stop asm a pedestrian, I just walk along the side road a bit, intending to cross behind them and they won't get out of the way. Not sure if people do it deliberately to be a pain.

DoubleTweenQueen · 07/04/2021 14:55

Absolutely true - it doesn't matter who thinks or actually does have ROW ultimately - although the rules are extremely useful as a guide to etiquette and expectation - but it's on everyone to avoid an accident.

puffinkoala · 07/04/2021 14:57

I've just checked the Highway Code which says (rule 170) that "you should...watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way"

Admittedly it says "should". Hopefully the revised version will say "must".

Skysblue · 07/04/2021 15:03

Honestly I didn’t realise that - guess I must have known it once to pass the theory test, but now I’d have assumed the car had right of way.

If a pedestrian is actually in the road I always stop, even when they’re making a semi-suicidal dash across a main road (I live near a school that’s oposite a station and you would not believe what pedestrians do to cross that road) But I don’t stop because they have right of way I stop because I don’t want an accident/ debate in court. One kid fatality on that road (not me!!) is quite enough.

Lurkingforawhile · 07/04/2021 15:06

@NiceTwin the thing is if you want pedestrians to cross further up from the junction that means walking up each side road you cross when you walk up a main road! That’s just not realistic (or fair on pedestrians)

emilyfrost · 07/04/2021 15:07

Tried to continue crossing today and the driver drive in front and started to argue that we were wrong to cross, blocked us with their car and then actually drove over my husband's foot (thankfully just the lip of the shoe) when I tried to keep going.

Whether you have right of way or not, why would you just belligerently keep going knowing the driver was aggressive and unpredictable?

It isn’t worth getting hurt, or even your life, just because you might happen to be right.

RandomLondoner · 07/04/2021 15:12

I know I give pedestrians priority in that situation, but I'm not sure if I knew it was in the code. I think I just do it out of a general reluctance to run over pedestrians who managed to occupy a chunk of road before me.

Lurkingforawhile · 07/04/2021 15:12

I had to do an emergency stop the other day when two pedestrians stepped out in front of me on a side road, as I was turning off from the main road. I was shocked, so I beeped and then got a load of abuse. I don’t feel comfortable stopping on the main road as I know a large lorry or van may well go into the back of me. I know that it would be their fault, but I don’t want to be injured. For that reason I don’t tend to stop for pedestrians who are waiting to cross the road if it’s not a crossing, and I don’t expect drivers to do that for me.

Lurkingforawhile · 07/04/2021 15:14

@expectopelargonium - that’s a perfect description!

UserEleventyNine · 07/04/2021 15:17

if you are a pedestrian then the onus is on you to look at what is turning off the main road into the road you are crossing,

But as I said above, so often drivers don't indicate. You might assume a driver is going straight on because s/he's not indicating, then s/he starts to turn when you've already stepped out. Or starts to indicate when they're about to make the turn, so you have no warning.

the thing is if you want pedestrians to cross further up from the junction that means walking up each side road you cross when you walk up a main road!

And as a pp said, quite often there are crossing places at the junctions, with dropped kerbs and textured surfaces. And away from the junctions roads are often lined with parked cars, and I was taught one shouldn't cross between parked cars - although sometimes there's no choice.

Original poster

Wellthatsit · 07/04/2021 15:21

@emilyfrost

Tried to continue crossing today and the driver drive in front and started to argue that we were wrong to cross, blocked us with their car and then actually drove over my husband's foot (thankfully just the lip of the shoe) when I tried to keep going.

Whether you have right of way or not, why would you just belligerently keep going knowing the driver was aggressive and unpredictable?

It isn’t worth getting hurt, or even your life, just because you might happen to be right.

I guess this is why I have posed the question in the first place. Drivers have the upper hand because 'it isn't worth getting hurt', but this creates an air of entitlement that leads too accidents. I wasn't being belligerent - the car had stopped and the driver pulled the window down to argue that we should have got out the way. We disagreed and I decided to walk around the front of her while she was stopped, having said my piece. The instant she realised I was going to do this, she put her foot down and barged past me, running over my husbands foot (he was to my right). We were both actually in the road standing next to her big car, talking through the window. She was driving in anger.

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Peegreenlie12 · 07/04/2021 15:22

Rule 170 of the Highway Code advises that if a pedestrian has already started to cross the side road into which you’re turning from a main road, you must give way to them.

Original poster

Wellthatsit · 07/04/2021 15:28

@Lurkingforawhile

I had to do an emergency stop the other day when two pedestrians stepped out in front of me on a side road, as I was turning off from the main road. I was shocked, so I beeped and then got a load of abuse. I don’t feel comfortable stopping on the main road as I know a large lorry or van may well go into the back of me. I know that it would be their fault, but I don’t want to be injured. For that reason I don’t tend to stop for pedestrians who are waiting to cross the road if it’s not a crossing, and I don’t expect drivers to do that for me.

This was similar to my situation, but not as dramatic. We had stepped out (it was a small side road and a wide pavemented pedestrian route that we were following - a High Street with plenty of people walking along it). The main road did not have lorries hurtling along it, and the car turning was not under pressure. She did brake as she started to turn as we were also just stepping out at that moment. We then reacted instinctively with a hesitation, but she had by then braked, so we continued in a kind of 'well, we are in the right, so don't bully us off the road' kind of way, at which point she starting moving again as if to say, 'I only braked to give you time to step back out of my way and I am prepared to run into you if you don't like it'. So there was a set of stand off situation, then windows rolled down etc...

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Original poster

Wellthatsit · 07/04/2021 15:30

I can see it is a bit ambiguous as to who had technical right of way, but my question is, as a driver, would you stop or potentially run someone over. Yes, pedestrians need to be aware, but they are also vulnerable, and if someone laid down in the middle of the road, you wouldn't go over them just because they shouldn't technically be there.

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IDontDoMyResearchOnFacebook · 07/04/2021 15:34

@Peegreenlie12

Rule 170 of the Highway Code advises that if a pedestrian has already started to cross the side road into which you’re turning from a main road, you must give way to them.

It actually says should so is sort of advice on best practice, must and must not denote legal requirements. Also for people talking about right of way, that's not really a thing, both pedestrian and car have right of way as they're allowed to be on the road/pavement/whatever but one of them will have priority.

GreenSlide · 07/04/2021 15:36

I would stop even if someone was just about to cross. Pedestrians should try to anticipate what cars are going to do but they can't always do so successfully. Best just to give the most vulnerable road user priority.

Lurkingforawhile · 07/04/2021 15:37

I think if the driver has had to do an emergency stop then stepping out on front of them was a bad idea! I will always always stop, even if it was for a squirrel tbh, but why would someone risk a driver not having good reactions and good brakes?

Original poster

Wellthatsit · 07/04/2021 15:41

I think you're correct IDontDoMyResearch, the Highway Code is just a best practise set of guidelines, and it's 'priority' rather than Right of Way. But surely all of this is a moot point when the reality is that it should be give and take, common sense, and manners that prevail, and instead it's drivers acting like they are more important than everyone else on the road (to the point where people are prepared to run over someone's foot when just turning a corner). I find it so depressing.

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Original poster

Wellthatsit · 07/04/2021 15:45

@Lurkingforawhile

I think if the driver has had to do an emergency stop then stepping out on front of them was a bad idea! I will always always stop, even if it was for a squirrel tbh, but why would someone risk a driver not having good reactions and good brakes?

They didn't have to do an emergency stop, and we didn't step out in front of them. We were walking along, they were driving out of sight behind us. It was obvious what ur trajectory was, they approached the junction as we were stepping out, but still thought they should just plough on even when it was obvious we were in the process of stepping out as they drove up. At best we arrived at the junction at the same time (although we think we got there first and had already started to cross). Why would you not just slow down for five seconds and let us cross, rather than drive at us? Especially when it was bleedingly obvious that we only saw the car once we'd started to cross (as it arrived just as we were stepping out, not before we stepped out).

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SpiderinaWingMirror · 07/04/2021 15:45

I know that. I am always cautious. Judging by the car vs pedestrian accidents I have reviewed its little known.