To ask about gender inequality in relation to nipple censorship?

[Nighthogs]

In 2021, in a time of so much advancement in so many areas of life, I'm here to talk about the nipple. It really sounds utterly ridiculous to even have to bring this topic up - but I feel it necessary.

Yes, I know that over the past one hundred plus years, women's nipples have been sexualised, fetishised and seen as crude/lewd/indecent in public. However, I've looked online and I can't seem to see a justification as to why men are allowed to parade down their local High Street and nip into their local Tesco with their nipples out if a woman can't? Similarly, If my boyfriend posted a topless picture on Instagram, it would be seen as normal. If I did so, it would be banned.

I know I'm probably asking an age old question, but I can't helping feeling angry at the inequality of it, and feel that it's still not talked about nearly enough.

Anyone care to discuss?

@UhtredRagnarson

Probably. But not parading down the High street or nipping into Tesco as the OP describes.

Who knows? People probably asserted women would never dare walk down the high street with their ankles on show at one point in time.

And fwiw I’m on the “no nipples, male or female, out in shops” side of the fence.

What's the advantage to going around in public with your nipples out, really? I don't want to see men's nipples any more than I want to see women's nipples, but the fact is that men's nipples are seen as sexual in our culture-- not in the same way as women's. It would be like a man walking around with no bottoms.

I don't see it changing any time soon, and frankly, I don't care one way or the other.

*aren't seen as sexual...

@malmi

There is no law against women baring breasts. It's just taboo, more so than men baring their chests. This is because they are secondary sexual characteristics which evolved to be permanently "engorged" (as opposed to only when full of milk as with other primates) when humans started walking upright. I think it's a good discussion to have and it would be fine to break the taboo down but let's not pretend that there's no reason for it being taboo in the first place.

Exactly. It’s tiresome when women want to do something just because men do it rather than because they genuinely want to.

My view is that you should start with the principle that where it is OK for a man to be without a top on, it should be OK for a woman too. This means men covering up more. Whether or not in places such as beaches and swimming pools women choose to exercise that option is up to them.

The fear of being photographed I am sure is the main reason why women sunbathing topless on beaches is a rarity nowadays.

“I think it's wrong women's breasts are sexualised”

But... they are part of my sexuality. It’s not simply that men like them and we passively accept this in society. I consider them sexual. I say that as someone who has breastfed for years.

@GhostCurry

“I think it's wrong women's breasts are sexualised”

But... they are part of my sexuality. It’s not simply that men like them and we passively accept this in society. I consider them sexual. I say that as someone who has breastfed for years.

Do you see them in sexual terms all the time? And want others to see them as purely sexual objects all the time? Do you think all women's breasts should be considered as being primarily for sex whenever, whatever?

I think, obviously, that there's a difference between your own breasts being part of your sexuality and women's breasts in general being sexualised. Maybe we have different definitions of sexualised?

It’s sex, not gender.

I cannot get worked up about this row. Women are murdered in this country at the rate of 2-3 a week by men. I’m prioritising issues like that before I fight for the “right” for us all to walk topless down the road

Men shouldn’t walk around topless; it looks awful.

Next we’ll be saying it’s wrong for men to want to have sex with women.
Also that since women can’t eg pee standing up, then men shouldn’t be allowed either.

@GhostCurry

“I think it's wrong women's breasts are sexualised”

But... they are part of my sexuality. It’s not simply that men like them and we passively accept this in society. I consider them sexual. I say that as someone who has breastfed for years.

I don't see breasts as remotely sexual. Why is your opinion more valid than mine? I don't see an issue with a woman at the pool or beach topless, just as I have no issue with men topless there either.

“ I don't see breasts as remotely sexual. Why is your opinion more valid than mine?”

I... didn’t say it was?

“Do you see them in sexual terms all the time? And want others to see them as purely sexual objects all the time? Do you think all women's breasts should be considered as being primarily for sex whenever, whatever?”

Nope. Like I said, I think the solution is for men to cover up just like women do. But I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that there isn’t an element of sexuality to female breasts. And male ones too, for that matter, which is why I don’t really want to see them either.

My view is that you should start with the principle that where it is OK for a man to be without a top on, it should be OK for a woman too. This means men covering up more. Whether or not in places such as beaches and swimming pools women choose to exercise that option is up to them.

Thanks - you've articulated this perfectly. I'm not really on the side of "free the nipple", but I do feel that not having breast tissue and engorged nipples shouldn't be a valid reason as to why men can get away with going topless in town centres and even supermarkets.

@GhostCurry

“Do you see them in sexual terms all the time? And want others to see them as purely sexual objects all the time? Do you think all women's breasts should be considered as being primarily for sex whenever, whatever?”

Nope. Like I said, I think the solution is for men to cover up just like women do. But I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that there isn’t an element of sexuality to female breasts. And male ones too, for that matter, which is why I don’t really want to see them either.

Well, good job no one is pretending there isn't an element of sexuality to female breasts for many. Because, again, that is very different to breasts in general being sexualised by society.

There are also men who don’t want to get their nipples out at the shopping centre too though. A quick survey of 3 in this house it was a firm no from all.

I am really curious where this place is with all the topless men. No one here (SE commuter belt) does that.

I'm always fascinated to see women in tribes all over the world, breasts just out all of the time. I don't think that they're sexualised in the same way as our culture, but I could be wrong.

I remember playing topless as a kid on hot summer days, and other boys and girls doing the same. I must have just grown aware of it one day that girls can't do that, years before I developed at all.

@malmi

There is no law against women baring breasts. It's just taboo, more so than men baring their chests. This is because they are secondary sexual characteristics which evolved to be permanently "engorged" (as opposed to only when full of milk as with other primates) when humans started walking upright. I think it's a good discussion to have and it would be fine to break the taboo down but let's not pretend that there's no reason for it being taboo in the first place.

Shhh. It's fine to pretend. Offence all the way.

@Givemeabreak88

But men don’t get harassed or gawped at if they are topless in the same way women would. I can’t imagine many feeling comfortable with that unless they were doing it for attention. Reminds me of the time a woman was walking around Tesco’s with a skirt that didn’t cover her bum (not those shorts, an actual skirt) her bum was hanging out the bottom and all the men literally had their eyes hanging out of their heads , can’t imagine many women liking that attention but I guess some might enjoy it.

Some definitely do but we're not allowed to say it. Victims everywhere.

I kind of wonder if effective "de-sexualisation" would probably start the other way around, with women not removing all their body hair, not wearing make-up etc, going around as themselves just like most men do. But that will never happen.

Shh! We do that for ourselves. It wasn't marketed to us, it's definitely something we came up with on our own because we gave a shit. It's not to "look good" for anybody else.

Looking at the sprinkling of snow on the ground now I can't see this being a massive problem today here in Worcestershire TBH.

I think there is a gender issue.

Countries such as Denmark and France (the female breast is the symbol of France) seem to have far less of a problem and fewer sniggering schoolboys when it comes to the body’s form.

When l can, l opt to go topless at the beach, bith for comfort and to enjoy the sun. Incidentally, men used to wear one piece cossies too.

I have no desire to go round Tesco topless though or see men in there without there shirts.

A couple of years back l was on a bus and the man sitting in front of me was sans shirt! I don’t want to sit on a fabric seat that someone’s sweaty back has been touching.

A couple of years back l was on a bus and the man sitting in front of me was sans shirt! I don’t want to sit on a fabric seat that someone’s sweaty back has been touching

I'm with you on that. And in food stores/shopping centres there really is no need.

In the summer I regularly see topless workmen all sitting in a row in the transit van without shirts. Don't they get nipple chafing from the seat belts?

@NuanceIsUselessHereSoPhuckit - l agree. It’s good to give a shit! 👗