To think there is a serious problem with the housing market in this country

[Kitchendisco21]

I was just about to buy my first home having spent 10 years saving a deposit. Thanks to the stupid help to buy intervention, the houses I was able to buy are now 50k more expensive so I am completely priced out. I am so utterly sick of it.

And no, I can’t move elsewhere/ get somewhere smaller/eat fewer avocados! I have been saving for a decade.

Aibu to be so fed up. I read last week that 98% of keyworkers couldn’t buy a home in the uk now. When will people actually wake up & see what a major problem there is? I am so angry.

The problem with rent controls is the landlord doesn’t have the money to fix stuff year on year so like before the 80s change of laws there were few private rentals available and the ones that were available were dire.
I think some landlords would just turn their accommodation into short term lets and claim their mortgage interest tax relief. Some might turn their accommodation over to the council and get a lower income but not have the hassle of managing the places and a few might sell.

Btl is a business and if there isn’t a profit then it doesn’t necessarily mean landlords just throw in the towel and flood the market with cheap property. They find different ways to make money out of their asset.
I saw a news piece when it changed to not being able to claim interest paid on btl mortgages against tax.
Loads of renters thinking they had got one over on the landlords and the landlords would now sell up and flood the market with cheap properties they could then afford.

All that happened was a lot renters got evicted and the places were turned into Airbnb’s so that the landlord could still claim mortgage interest tax relief and keep an income. Very few sold up. With fewer rentals then available rents then rose in price.

The tenant was responsible for repairs in secure private tenancies. They still are (some still exist). BTL got out of control. I had a look out of interest recently. Loads of 1 bedroom flats. Ideal for first time buyers trapped into spending their deposit savings on high rents. Problem was they were marketed to "investors". BTL pushed the prices up, leaving first time buyers in rented, which in turn pushed vulnerable people including the disabled (and families with disabled children) down into the slum rentals. It's not right that increasing numbers of children are growing up never able to settle, going to school not knowing if next year they'll have to change schools - because the landlord has sold up or put the rent up too high, so the family has to move away. Nor is it right that disabled people struggle to have a home at all.

@MrsKoala

What about people who want/need to rent, like students and for work? Where will they live? Also as I said upthread the rent is less than the mortgage would be so its enabling people to live in areas they’d never be able to afford and making the area more diverse. If those houses were sold the people currently living in them wouldn’t be able to buy them.

I’ve rented many properties by choice. Without private landlords I wouldn’t have been able to move to an area and work for a year contract. I see being a private LL as providing a service.

Despite what may have come across on this thread, I agree with the above. The problem I believe is leveraged buy to let being encouraged/allowed/favoured.

For many years the terms for a landlords were better than owner occupiers. They could get mortgages that were interest only, and they could simply refinance an existing place, and buy another ad infinitum, with full tax relief.

Some may argue that as it’s a business, this was fair enough to claim as an expense. But it stoked a huge fire.

The changes (to only allow basic rate relief) didn’t go nearly far enough imho. I think but to let mortgages should have been banned. You want to invest in housing for renting out? Go ahead, but do it without gearing. Buy it with cash only.

Some will probably say this will turn but to let into the preserve of the wealth only. Indeed it probably would.

But the truly wealthy are usually intelligent enough to diversify their assets, and I doubt all of them salivate at the idea of being landlords only. They know that the returns in the stock / commodities markets can easily beat btl, and are less hassle too. Thus housing would in part at least return to being housing and not an investment.

Lots of current landlords don't fix things anyway regardless of any laws. They have a captive market. Tenants (particularly the vulnerable with limited income) can't risk complaining because they'll be evicted under the no fault clause and/or struggle to find another landlord who will accept them.

@TulisaIsBrill
When I was younger, the best landlord I ever had was a landlord through inheritance. The place was a bit of a dump but in return the rent was cheap and he didn't discriminate against students or people on benefits. He left us alone too. No excessively frequent intrusive inspections.

That being said, I personally would never do buy to let, even as a cash purchase because I genuinely believe that we need a return to seeing housing as a non attractive investable asset for a couple of generations to sort this current mess out.

I just prefer my investments to be in the productive economy.

[quote Tealightsandd]@TulisaIsBrill
When I was younger, the best landlord I ever had was a landlord through inheritance. The place was a bit of a dump but in return the rent was cheap and he didn't discriminate against students or people on benefits. He left us alone too. No excessively frequent intrusive inspections.[/quote]
Similar experience here. If you can work out whether your landlord has a mortgage on the place, and pick one who hasn't, I've found that they are much less intrusive too. Might be anecdotal indeed, but there you go.

They don't need a particular 'sum' to make the maths work. The problem is it works in a feedback loop otherwise and it isn't a true market. One other issue is housing benefit / uc rates are set by councils - and those work symbiotically with the average rental price, setting an artificial floor on rents because it's what geared landlords need to wash their face.

Otherwise rents would be set by what tenants are genuinely prepared/able to pay and what non geared landlords need. That would likely bring rents down a lot and act much more like a free market.

Agree, many landlords don't do maintenance anyway or hold out as long as possible and try to claim for the same damage through different tenant's deposits (as a relative recently experienced).

In a long term secure capped rental, I'm sure many tenants are willing to pay for repairs as it is their home for a long term period and they actually benefit. I have relatives who own a couple of properties outright abroad (through inheritance) and charge fairly low rent as their interest is the property being in use and not falling into disrepair or being vandalised. They pay for maintenance but the tenants prefer to do a lot of work on their own as they have a long term let and have already lived there for 14 years. A win win, the property stays in the family and a family gets to use it and have a stable home life.

Homes are not and should not be an investment, they are a basic human right. This current situation is untenable. Low income families being forced to move every 6 months or annually. Can you imagine how many different schools their children attend if they can't find a home in their area or get priced out when landlords hike rents in between tenants? Evictions because a tenant is asking for maintenance or the landlord to abide by the law. It's beyond ridiculous at this point and I struggle to understand anyone who is okay with the status quo

We Live in a stupidly expensive area and are pretty much stuck as dc are both in secondary school and very settled. Prices have gone up so much over the past year I can’t even bring myself to look at what’s available.
We have been saving for 15 years and despite raising nearly £90000 and earning a decent wage between us, we still can’t afford anything.
We have rented our flat for 13 years and have paid twice in rent what our landlady paid for the house. She won’t sell to us either despite it falling to bits. 😭

I live on a small flat and I'm staying here for the time being until DD finishes school. Dh and I bought PBPR in 2002 a two bed flat in Zone 3 SE London at 50% of £165k. We bought tbe other 50% about 5 years later. It was valued then at £250k. Now Zoopla place it at the £350-450k mark. Just by sitting on it. It's ridiculous.

The freeholders are greedy bastards, the management company are greedy badtards, both charging huge sums and returning little benefit. The internal communal areas need a total overhaul. We need new windows. We know we have to pay for these but the freeholder and MC cannot be arsed to do these jobs. So frustrating.

We cannot afford to move up to even a small house anywhere in SE London. I am now looking at places in North Kent, or "home" (to me) to Northamptonshire or Warwickshire, despite the long schlep into work each day.

We are fortunate in getting a place to live before the bonkers price rises, but our income has stagnated and we can't upgrade where we are. A lot of my neighbours are in tbe same position.

@ArtemisiaGentle , with up to £450k you could easily afford a house in SE London - Bexley or Bromley Boroughs. There are even some much cheaper than that in the Lewisham Borough.

@Lightsabre Have you seen the prices of houses in those areas? Maybe Erith or Dartford...

[quote ArtemisiaGentle]@Lightsabre Have you seen the prices of houses in those areas? Maybe Erith or Dartford...[/quote]
Plenty in Bromley although they seem to move fast. Here’s one.

Turpington Lane, Bromley, Kent, BR2
www.rightmove.co.uk/property/89924125

It's almost satirical that that house that looks like it was built intended for (an utterly deserving) family on benefits now is knocking 1/2 a mill, and probably houses a senior manager of a blue chip working all the hours god sends. Both families deserve a home - but let's face it, if you were that manager you would be left wondering why the f**k you're bothering.

I don't mean to sound snobbish, I really don't. It's just that it is really utterly absurd.

Internally it looks great, but the external hardly screams 'ahhhh I've made it'. And yet it's a sodding 450k.

Leechcroft Avenue Sidcup DA15
www.rightmove.co.uk/property/86165698

Dozens like this house.

Yes, £450K is a lot of money but often people trade in a flat to move out further to properties like this (which will probably actually sell for £425-£435).

ArtemisiaGentle

I really think you could afford to buy a house in London for £450,000. I also think you could get a detached house by moving out just a little way from London.
Following the train lines out I think you could definitely find a house with a much shorter commute than coming in from Northamptonshire

@TulisaIsBrill

It's almost satirical that that house that looks like it was built intended for (an utterly deserving) family on benefits now is knocking 1/2 a mill, and probably houses a senior manager of a blue chip working all the hours god sends. Both families deserve a home - but let's face it, if you were that manager you would be left wondering why the f**k you're bothering.

I don't mean to sound snobbish, I really don't. It's just that it is really utterly absurd.

I agree.

People are having to work 3 times as hard and end up with half the house (unless they have large inheritances or were able to buy many years ago). Safe, warm housing should be a basic right.

@Bythemillpond

If the rich buyers are paying off peoples mortgages they will cause a contraction in the money supply which will push prices down for all of us

But if there is no new mortgages then unless you have the cash you can’t buy.

The rich aren’t paying off people’s mortgages. If prices go so low then the sellers end up in negative equity and they still have to pay off the rest of the mortgage not covered by the cash buyer

There are mortgages available though: in fact far more recently for the last year or so. 95% mortgages are back on the marker from major banks which has not been the case in years!

@Lightsabre

Leechcroft Avenue Sidcup DA15 www.rightmove.co.uk/property/86165698

Dozens like this house.

Yes, £450K is a lot of money but often people trade in a flat to move out further to properties like this (which will probably actually sell for £425-£435).

Agreed. Nobody surely expects to buy a detached house as their first house? You buy somewhere small and run down then fix it up and sell it and move somewhere bigger when you move in with a partner and then a bigger place when you have children to house, etc.

Noone is complaining about not being able to buy a detached home. Those small poky rundown flats you speak of are out of reach if at all available as they are marketed to "developers" who buy them up and push up the ceiling floor for the FTB and charge astronomical rent. People are saying they cannot afford to buy (1 bedroom flats in a crappy area) on their income and then the overwhelming response is a mixture of stop buying avocado toast (I.e. young people overspend) and humble your sights and expectations, choose a smaller flat /cheaper area. To what exactly? A caravan? A parking space?

Meanwhile to the haters, coinbase IPO today.

If you had just been open minded to what I was saying a week ago, you could have swapped some of your ever devaluing sterling for bitcoin and be 10% up. More in Ethereum.

And yet I'm the simpleton who 'no-one should listen to' and 'must be terribly insecure'.

@JaninaDuszejko

If you could show me a link to one of these studio flats in London for 100k, I'd thoroughly appreciate it.

Studio flat in London. No idea of the niceness of area. Of course, as a teacher you can work anywhere and with a budget of £190K you can afford a house in most parts of the country since the average house price is £250K so most FTB properties are much less than that

That's a literal room. It's the kind of thing students live in. No bed. Sofa next to the kitchen ffs

MagentaGiraffe

This comment was about if there were no mortgages.

This is probably the most appalling thing I've ever wrote, but I can see that room (because that is indeed what it is) place stacking up as a buy to let / Airbnb thing. Probably a reasonable yield.

Maybe at a pinch it might work as a pied a Terre For someone.

But there is absolutely no way I would buy it as an full time owner occupier. Nearly 2 bitcoin to live somewhere that depressing?