To think there is a serious problem with the housing market in this country

[Kitchendisco21]

I was just about to buy my first home having spent 10 years saving a deposit. Thanks to the stupid help to buy intervention, the houses I was able to buy are now 50k more expensive so I am completely priced out. I am so utterly sick of it.

And no, I can’t move elsewhere/ get somewhere smaller/eat fewer avocados! I have been saving for a decade.

Aibu to be so fed up. I read last week that 98% of keyworkers couldn’t buy a home in the uk now. When will people actually wake up & see what a major problem there is? I am so angry.

@korawick12345

“I know wealthy people exist, trust me. I just don’t believe they’re so insecure as to need to boast online.”

That is a direct claim I’m not who I said I was.

As always, people who don’t like the truth shoved in their face attack the person rather than their argument. I’ve posted

• Bank of England paper talking about how money works
• documentary on mortgage fraud in the Uk
• proof I’m who I am.

What have the rest of you done? Post ‘oh it’s always been hard - stop buying lattes and buy a bedsit’

You have also posted that Shania Twain and Dizzee Rascal are predictors of the future and can come across a bit like one of the ‘buy Bitcoin’ bots that are all over the net.

You have a view, that’s great, but the endless emphasis on how rich you are and your personal financial arrangements is not very edifying.

In addition when anyone had the temerity to point out that any kind of investment strategy is risky as none of us know what the future holds for us and that what feels like a comfortable cushion can be run down without warning, you became really aggressive and accused people of being ‘haters’ and suggesting they couldn’t believe how wealthy you really are. Again this was a really odd response.

@BillMasen

I think someone has just over egged the pudding...

Indeed. This otherwise interesting thread has descended into one hell of a me-rail.

@TulisaIsBrill that is a minor symptom of the problem not the cause, nor the major symptom at that. Low productivity and underinvestment due to poor economic management decades ago led to stagnating wages and yes, eventually the state topped them up. Instead it should have invested massively in skills, technology and future industries like green technology, thereby raising productivity and salaries without the need for subsidy, and used top-ups as a temporary way to raise living standards meanwhile. But the top ups themselves did not cause the issue.

Until there is a proper industrial plan and complete overhaul of education (instead of tinkering around the edges with apprenticeships and tax breaks etc) nothing will change. The housing market issues are also a symptom of this failure in economic policy.

@korawick12345

You have also posted that Shania Twain and Dizzee Rascal are predictors of the future and can come across a bit like one of the ‘buy Bitcoin’ bots that are all over the net.

You have a view, that’s great, but the endless emphasis on how rich you are and your personal financial arrangements is not very edifying.

In addition when anyone had the temerity to point out that any kind of investment strategy is risky as none of us know what the future holds for us and that what feels like a comfortable cushion can be run down without warning, you became really aggressive and accused people of being ‘haters’ and suggesting they couldn’t believe how wealthy you really are. Again this was a really odd response.

And you’ve been telling anyone who dares to say ‘it’s tough’ to buy a 1 bed flat like a good little debt slave. Pathetic, and callous.

And Shania and Dizzee were spot on, unlike Greenspan, Ben Bernanke, Eddie George or Mervyn King. Or maybe they just liked turning a blind eye.

I haven’t told anyone to buy a flat if they don’t want to buy property I have merely suggested that if they do want to buy property that 1 bed flat is more attainable than a 3 bed house. Why that means you feel the need to personally insult me is utterly beyond me.

@TulisaIsBrill There was a AIBU about debt a few weeks ago and only myself and another poster knew that banks create money when you borrow it it is scary how clueless people are.

[quote bp300]@TulisaIsBrill There was a AIBU about debt a few weeks ago and only myself and another poster knew that banks create money when you borrow it it is scary how clueless people are.[/quote]
Wow. That is shocking. What did they think happens?!

@korawick12345

I haven’t told anyone to buy a flat if they don’t want to buy property I have merely suggested that if they do want to buy property that 1 bed flat is more attainable than a 3 bed house. Why that means you feel the need to personally insult me is utterly beyond me.

You have personally insulted me numerous times, and been utterly facile with your arguments.

You have said I have an ‘agenda’, that it’s ‘very strange’ that I feel the need to back up my points with the absolutely relevant context that I’m a decent earner. I did so to demonstrate it is not the politics of envy to question the status quo and my agenda is to point out that when someone’s affordability is constrained, it is the result of a broken system, rather than ‘be happy with a 1 bed - there’s a good dear’.

@MagentaGiraffe the majority of people it seems think banks lend out the savings of other people, rather than just creating the credit money. Some might know about the fractional reserve system, but many have no idea at all about how it really works. That’s why I posted the BOE paper.

@bp300 - well done - awesome thread - I found it.

@TulisaIsBrill They genuinely thought that the bank lends out peoples savings out. None of them could grasp that the savings wouldn't exist if someone hadn't borrowed the money in the first place..

Thanks for confirming your agenda, though I don’t think anyone is in any doubt as to what it is😀. I will continue to consider it very odd to post all over a website about how rich you think you are and show horn your material wealth into as many posts as possible. But each to their own. We are clearly very different people, I would never consider spending upwards of 50k on a car, unless I had very many millions! For me where I live being nice (whether it’s rented or owned) is more important than driving a smart car, you are obviously the opposite. As I said, each to their own.

@eaglejulesk

Who wants to be paying a mortgage in their late sixties? Madness

Many people in their late sixties, and beyond, are paying rent. How is that different (other than the obvious).

Exactly I know many people in their late sixties / early seventies who are still paying mortgages. The fact that it has become increasingly difficult to get on the housing ladder means that many will be paying off their mortgages at an older age.

Prices in my area (London) have risen a lot recently. What I don’t understand is, who are these people who can afford such massive sums?

[quote bp300]@TulisaIsBrill There was a AIBU about debt a few weeks ago and only myself and another poster knew that banks create money when you borrow it it is scary how clueless people are.[/quote]
Yes I've heard this. Is it 9 times more than what you borrow or a similar crazy amount.

That's what annoys me about the state of housing in this country. It doesn't need to be this way. The flat above and adjacent to me is a second home and hardly occupied (seaview, so holiday home) but I think people buy second homes more for an investment than anything else, as other options aren't as fruitful or are too risky. The issue is property being seen as an investment and not a home to live in. I can't help but think there is deliberate undersupply/lax policies regarding owning multiple properties to keep house prices increasing and keeping the voting population feeling like they are gaining on their investment. I do hope there is a crash or at least a period of stagnation. There really needs to be. I noticed when looking at sold prices of houses in my area that have been bought and sold in the last couple of years, that they were going down by about 5-10% in recent months (asking prices were way higher) and we live in a second home/student town/commuter town area. People are asking a lot, but they aren't getting anywhere near what they are asking for.

@lllllllllll

Prices in my area (London) have risen a lot recently. What I don’t understand is, who are these people who can afford such massive sums?

People have saved up money through lockdown which they are then able to leverage up by borrowing more money.

@lllllllllll

Prices in my area (London) have risen a lot recently. What I don’t understand is, who are these people who can afford such massive sums?

My cousin is an estate agent in the Greater London/ Kent area. She said that one million plus houses are going like hot cakes. Apparently they have to put down at least 20% deposit There are some very wealthy people around.

@lllllllllll

Prices in my area (London) have risen a lot recently. What I don’t understand is, who are these people who can afford such massive sums?

I'd say it depends on what definition of 'afford' you mean. I feel a lot of people stretch themselves far too thin. They may be able to get the mortgage initially, but wether they can truly afford it is more a subjective measure for each individual. I feel icky about any type of mortgage I worry about being able to afford something now but maybe not in the future and being locked in and chained to a payment, but I guess a lot of people that are buying now aren't too concerned with this. The whole Covid situ is setting alarm signals to me, ppl seem brave to buy with such uncertainty looming!

@NobbySignaler Yes I agree with what you've said there. I would like to see a crash despite owning property myself. The government will try to do everything they can to try and postpone a crash. I think there will be big price price falls in real terms but in nominal terms not so much.

TulisaIsBrill

All I’ll say is I do have excellent private medical cover and critical illness cover too

So did we but it didn’t stop them turning round and saying they wouldn’t pay for dh’s cancer treatment.

[quote TulisaIsBrill]@MagentaGiraffe the majority of people it seems think banks lend out the savings of other people, rather than just creating the credit money. Some might know about the fractional reserve system, but many have no idea at all about how it really works. That’s why I posted the BOE paper.

@bp300 - well done - awesome thread - I found it.[/quote]
That's bonkers. So the money supply would be static? Surely even if you'd never been taught about it or used google in your life it would be apparent from the application of basic logic that that is not what happens. How could banks have enough in savings deposits to fund current mortgages etc? 😂 The mind boggles.

[quote bp300]@TulisaIsBrill They genuinely thought that the bank lends out peoples savings out. None of them could grasp that the savings wouldn't exist if someone hadn't borrowed the money in the first place..[/quote]
It's madness that this isn't spelled out by parents or at school. And that must also mean that they have no idea what tax is for either?! Tbh fractional reserve banking is a big part of the problem IMO: the primary vehicle for money creation should have remained the Government so it could be directed productively with strategy. It's obvious that individual banks would rather inflate mortgages than lend to businesses because if it goes wrong they are guaranteed an asset to seize because they get none of the potential upside risk from debt investment in business.

Call my bitter but I can’t feel too upset for the Queen right now as I read this guardian article that shared a report on how nearly 50% of land in the U.K. is owned by 1% and guess who was amongst the top of the list?