To think living within your means has become the exception?

[SmokeyApo]

Hi all, I just wanted to share some observations and hear other people's inputs.

It seems to me that is becoming more and more rare for people to live within their means and try to save a little money for a rainy day. In my circles I know many people on good and even great salaries, that lead seemingly extremely expensive lifestyles and don't save a penny, or even go into debt to afford extravagant holidays or cars.

A good friend of mine is a senior executive in tech, makes an absolute fortune and had to ask around his friends (me included) to borrow money when he bought a house last year, because he couldn't cover the down payment. Another friend of mine got divorced last year, both spouses on really excellent wages, and it turned out that they had almost no assets to share after being married for 15 years because they had spent everything they got.

I am starting to wonder if I live in a bubble of financial irresponsibility or if this phenomenon is widespread. AIBU to think that saving and being mindful with money has become the exception rather than the rule?

Wages for nurses are the same wherever you live! Which is the job a pp mentioned. Do only expensive areas offer jobs ? I still maintain that it’s daft to stay in an expensive area paying out £1000 month rent when you don’t earn very much. Is the minimum wage less in some areas?
Everyone is looking for excuses for why some people ‘don’t not can’t’ save money.
Some people can’t afford to save . Too many can but choose not to. Which is the point the op was making.

Some parts of every country on earth are for the rich only. That’s how capitalism works.
How would you afford to live in an area with million pounds homes unless you were rich?

@ConsuelaHammock

Some parts of every country on earth are for the rich only. That’s how capitalism works. How would you afford to live in an area with million pounds homes unless you were rich?

Do they sweep their own roads, go to landfill site with their own refuse, take shifts in their local supermarkets, cafes and restaurants, and perform their own nursing?

@ConsuelaHammock

Wages for nurses are the same wherever you live! Which is the job a pp mentioned. Do only expensive areas offer jobs ? I still maintain that it’s daft to stay in an expensive area paying out £1000 month rent when you don’t earn very much. Is the minimum wage less in some areas? Everyone is looking for excuses for why some people ‘don’t not can’t’ save money. Some people can’t afford to save . Too many can but choose not to. Which is the point the op was making.

Nurses/Police/ Firefighters in London get London Weighting plus far more opportunities for progression than a local DG or small station. Plus you dont have to travel miles and miles to get to work. I cycled when I lived in London as it was outside of rush hour due to shifts. Masses of extra shifts available if you want them.

Some parts of every country on earth are for the rich only.

And you're comfortable with the glaring inequity of that, are you @ConsuelaHammock ?

@ConsuelaHammock
You must live quite privileged life. I wonder what would happen if everyone on minimum wage leaves London and home counties. You're obviously a problem-solver, can you tell us how would that work? Would there be enough jobs up north for all these people?

@ConsuelaHammock

Some parts of every country on earth are for the rich only. That’s how capitalism works. How would you afford to live in an area with million pounds homes unless you were rich?

I think you have missed a huge part out here. I worked with a colleague originally from Oxford her parents were comfortable and still live there. My colleague cannot afford to live in Oxford even if she wanted to move back and have the same quality of life that she has currently in a cheaper location. It is to do with houses prices of today because there’s only so much you can save...

Do only expensive areas offer jobs ?

You clearly live under a rock!

As a single mum my bank account is still recovering from the hideous childcare bills I was paying when my son was younger. Despite working full time I did struggle financially and it kept me awake worrying about bills . I’m now in a much better financial situation and have savings .

Thanks to those posters who offered their kind thoughts, my situation is what it is and I don't really resent the situation itself, I resent the automatic judgement that comes with it that I'm morally at fault for being here by people who have what are certainly privileges to me, even if they don't consider themselves privileged.
Had I had access to credit, I'd have undoubtedly used it so that I wasn't cold, so that I didn't have the threat of bailiffs at the door.

Everything is disposable these days and that’s a whole different topic.

People have become disposable, well some have, all I've heard in my jobs over the years are about 'the needs of the business' to justify the lowest wages that are allowed by law and things like zero hours contracts, and further than no regard for the people who are working in that business, but actual contempt in some cases.
There needs to be a balance.

I guess it depends on personality types and who you hang out with. A lot my friends and family (myself included) have always been savers and have saved more due to Lockdown & made a lot of money in investments.

Like most things, it’s all about balance. The only debt I have is a mortgage and I choose to have a new car on PCP as I can afford it and don’t want the stress of services, mots and repairs. I do save a little each month but I spend most of my salary on nice things to have and do with my kids and husband. My Mum died too young from cancer, so I want to live my life, have a nice home and nice things. My husbands side of the family are savers but his grandmother is now paying well over £1000 a week to live in a care home due to those savings and is next to people who pay nothing as they have less than £23k in savings. All the frugal living for years is just paying her bills now. She could have enjoyed that money previously and still had the exact same life now 🤷🏽‍♀️

@ConsuelaHammock

Some parts of every country on earth are for the rich only. That’s how capitalism works. How would you afford to live in an area with million pounds homes unless you were rich?

This is not entirely true. Communities have always in the past tended to have areas within a reasonable distance for multiple income levels. Because where else do the workers that the rick need come from?

Commuting has increased that somewhat in the 20th century, so workers could live further away, but it's become more and more extreme. To the point where the commute is not only negativly impacting people's lives but is increasingly expensive.

It makes zero sense to have huge enclaves where only the wealthy can afford to live and the workers have to live far away. Not only in terms of personal cost, it's expensive in terms of infrastructure and it also bad for the environment.

@JosieJasper

Like most things, it’s all about balance. The only debt I have is a mortgage and I choose to have a new car on PCP as I can afford it and don’t want the stress of services, mots and repairs. I do save a little each month but I spend most of my salary on nice things to have and do with my kids and husband. My Mum died too young from cancer, so I want to live my life, have a nice home and nice things. My husbands side of the family are savers but his grandmother is now paying well over £1000 a week to live in a care home due to those savings and is next to people who pay nothing as they have less than £23k in savings. All the frugal living for years is just paying her bills now. She could have enjoyed that money previously and still had the exact same life now 🤷🏽‍♀️

I agree about the balance.

But isn’t this the inherent unfairness of our system, when those who have chosen to save are penalised while those who didn’t are not?

If everyone chose that approach the whole system would be in even more of a mess!

I don’t know what the answer is at all to the care system, but no government have ever tried to address it fairly.

Times are different now. Everything is expensive, housing costs are shocking, council tax is one of our biggest expenses, quickly followed by utilities. Childcare costs are astronomical.

So if you need a car to get to work, but cant get savings behind you then maybe that lease car is all you can afford.

We went for 2 years without any heating because we were barely scraping a living in 2 full time jobs!

We're much more comfortable now, but hopefully moving to a nicer property this year meaning spare money for savings will be much less but a better house which suits our needs.

I completely agree OP.
It’s consumerism- buying shit you can’t afford to impress people you don’t like. No wonder the planet is fucked. We all HAVE to have brand new cars and phones every two years... not to mention all the other showy off shit people spend their money on.

But isn’t this the inherent unfairness of our system, when those who have chosen to save are penalised while those who didn’t are not?

I agree, it does seem very unfair but then it would also feel unfair if only those who can afford to save substantial amounts were able to afford such care when needed. It’s a hard issue to resolve as it seems there is no real fair way.
Also, we’ve seen in the last year what happens when people stop spending their money and start saving more. The economy suffers and people lose their jobs. I wish I had the answers but I sadly don’t.
I’m just grateful that I’m in a position where I can spend and also have enough in savings to cover our essential outgoings for at least 6 months if needed. Many people can’t save anything as they have no option but to use all their income on essential living costs.

But isn’t this the inherent unfairness of our system, when those who have chosen to save are penalised while those who didn’t are not?

I have a different perspective on that.
I'm "choosing" not to save by working in places where those people who need care are cared for - for minimum wage.
We need these places, they need to be staffed, everyone agrees that they need to be staffed by people who know what they're doing, have experience and compassion and can pass that along to the next group coming into the job, there's generally an attitude of wanting the best care, but also not even wanting to be paying minimum prices for it - which is reflected in the wages that care staff earn.
Admittedly, if the 'middle man' the owners of these care businesses took less of a cut for profit, there'd be a small difference, but ultimately, society wants a top rate service for cut price or no fees.
This is where problems start because people like to demand the above, but then resent that the people doing it can't afford to pay for their own care when the time arises, and then we have people complaining that their relative/they had to pay for their care, whilst I 'didn't bother to save' and got it for free. It isn't free, I will have spent 28 years working in a job that I'm needed in because of my experience and knowledge, caring for the nation's elderly and vulnerable, and being paid not enough to live on for that in the moment, never mind go forward and pay for my own care.
And then when that time comes people are resentful of the tax payer paying my care - well the alternative is to pay more for care now so that I can save enough to pay for my own care, either by being a home owner or having a savings pot.

Whilst not impossible to save, you're not going to be able to save enough for 5 or 10 or an indeterminate number of years of care should you need it whilst also meeting your obligations during your working life.
So, if I stay in care now until I retire which will be 27 years (at current state retirement age) I doubt I'll even have 24k in savings - never mind above that amount.

I mean I could, and probably will move on to a higher paid job, but at what cost to the industry? Losing skill and experience that is needed to meet the demands of society in caring for the vulnerable, to be replaced by someone without it.

So where the care system is concerned I guess it depends on what you want?
Do you want all care paid for by the individual so it's 'fair' which will force people out of low paid jobs, and force the fees to rise anyway as they'll have to pay wages that people can not only live on, but save on too;
Or do you want the current system where fees are lower, but so are wages, resulting in people who can't save for their own care and see funded later.

TBH right now it feels like people want a mix of both, to pay people like me low wages, demand high standards and then say we should have had the foresight to save, when it was impossible, and us not get the care we've been giving for our working lives, when we need it.

Honestly, it's an absolute joke.

What's unfair is a system where so few are permitted to hoard insanely vast amounts of wealth whilst wagging the dog to pit those they shaft against the poorest in society.

TBH right now it feels like people want a mix of both, to pay people like me low wages, demand high standards and then say we should have had the foresight to save, when it was impossible, and us not get the care we've been giving for our working lives, when we need it.

100%!

@osbertthesyrianhamster

TBH right now it feels like people want a mix of both, to pay people like me low wages, demand high standards and then say we should have had the foresight to save, when it was impossible, and us not get the care we've been giving for our working lives, when we need it.

100%!

Which is where feeling like a disposable human being comes in, I can live a life where I have little or no enjoyment, get paid a pittance and then cast aside when I need care because it's all my own fault for not saving.

While all the time being expected to be socially responsible to "The taxpayer" - why is it only people on low incomes that are expected to be socially responsible?

Not where I am no.

People I know work hard in quite senior positions but live very modestly in semi-detached houses and drive modest cars like five year old Tiguans and four year old Golfs, take one foreign holiday a year and maybe two or three UK holidays a year. Wear middling clothes (Boden, White Company, Regatta etc.) and spend spare time sailing, walking, visiting National Trust places or historic towns. We all (as far as I'm told) save between 20% and 40% of earnings so that we can buy things or have holidays without going into debt.

We're all older though (40 plus) with no children so this may have some bearing.

I think a lot of younger people are getting into debt trying to live an Instagramable life.

@TheBullfinch I laughed a bit when you said 4/5 year old expensive cars are modest, Tiguan isn’t what I would call a modest car. Neither is 3-4 holidays per year, one being abroad. Most families I know have one U.K. holiday if they’re lucky and clothes from Next are an expensive treat .

[quote HippeePrincess]@TheBullfinch I laughed a bit when you said 4/5 year old expensive cars are modest, Tiguan isn’t what I would call a modest car. Neither is 3-4 holidays per year, one being abroad. Most families I know have one U.K. holiday if they’re lucky and clothes from Next are an expensive treat .[/quote]
She also said those people work in senior positions and don’t have children. You’d expect those people to be better off, wouldn’t you?

I think this is quite common, my husband and I dont like debt and are cautious spenders so we will keep cars for a while (and buy outright), we save for things then buy including things like holidays etc but I think we are the exception when I look at people similar ages.

Everything seems to be about instant gratification and wanting constantly. I buy second hand and will really think for a while about bigger expenses rather than rushing to buy as a result we have decent savings and have been able to do things like renovate our home etc with no debt accrued. We arent on particularly high paying jobs and feel like we play the long game in terms of how we spend.