To think living within your means has become the exception?

[SmokeyApo]

Hi all, I just wanted to share some observations and hear other people's inputs.

It seems to me that is becoming more and more rare for people to live within their means and try to save a little money for a rainy day. In my circles I know many people on good and even great salaries, that lead seemingly extremely expensive lifestyles and don't save a penny, or even go into debt to afford extravagant holidays or cars.

A good friend of mine is a senior executive in tech, makes an absolute fortune and had to ask around his friends (me included) to borrow money when he bought a house last year, because he couldn't cover the down payment. Another friend of mine got divorced last year, both spouses on really excellent wages, and it turned out that they had almost no assets to share after being married for 15 years because they had spent everything they got.

I am starting to wonder if I live in a bubble of financial irresponsibility or if this phenomenon is widespread. AIBU to think that saving and being mindful with money has become the exception rather than the rule?

I've never had a credit card. The closest I came to one was in my early twenties when I had store cards. They would be paid off very quickly though. I have no family and don't work so I have always saved. DH is also a saver and has always planned for our future. When he had a heart attack last year I was very grateful for this. I'm very lucky in that I know my MIL would always give me money should I need it but while I let her buy the odd thing for the kids when they were small I've never needed to ask for anything.

I guess it's what you're used to and all relative.
A good friend of mine is constantly fretting about money and saying they need to "pull their belts in" or jokes theyll have eat bread and water.
But the next week theyll have spent 10k on a house project and be planning some other renovations, eaten out a couple of times and booked a holiday abroad. Of course they have a different income and budget and can spend however they like, but for me, the expression pulling your belt in would mean living quite frugally.

Simply from the fact that most cars I see on the road are new to very 'young' I'd say you're right op.

People saying savings aren't worth it - in a bank yes, I grant you but Stocks & Shares Isa's/ investments have actually performed pretty well despite Covid and pensions where the government literally gives you 'free' money are a great investment due to compound interest. My excess money goes to pension and isas as a first port of call.

I do have a car on finance at 0% interest which is £240 a month including main dealer warranty, servicing and breakdown cover and in 4 years will be mine. I used to spend more on a 2nd hand car in depreciation and servicing.

YANBU

I used to be an ex-pat for quite a long time. DH and I had a great life, whilst saving money. We both worked, paid between 12-17% tax, and knew we would never get this opportunity again. When we came back we bought a house in a very nice area in the south with cash. Most of our friends who worked with us came back with NOTHING. They spent it all. Despite this, they still ride around in flashy cars and have 4 holidays a year, on credit.

I used to work with people in debt. Most of them would arrive at our office in a new Audi, it became a running joke. They would have maxed out about 5 or 5 credit cards on clothes, watches, holidays, and living the high life. Most of them had very modest jobs and so it wasn't as if they could reign it in for a few months and pay it back.

A lot of people do not live within their means and think they are entitled to the finer things in life but arent willing to graft for it.

The instant gratification thing really winds me up! People just see the car, clothes, holiday they want and go get it on credit! It makes me so angry, and I feel it's so entitled.

I have a family member of a similar age - she and her DF earn roughly half of what me and my DF earn yet they have amazing holidays, she has a HUGE engagement ring, they both drive flashy cars, latest clothes trainers etc, cosmetic treatments...list goes on. They HAVE to be up to their necks in debt! We don't have any of the above!

Also from a climate change perspective it really isn't sustainable for us to purchase consumer goods in the way that we currently are! It's insane

YANBU but it's a result of a lot of things not just people are feckless.

Houses cost a bomb.
Once you're in massive debt psychologically what's a bit more.
Also a desirable side effect for the govt of paying for university is lots of young people are in debt early. And locked into the system.
Young people at university were always a pita for govt. Very big on activism. Lock then into the work borrow spend cycle earlier and they don't have the luxury of activism nearly so much.

In the end the answer is manipulation for the interests of the capitalist machine. In s nutshell.

Yes I get where you are coming from OP and my teens certainly have the mindset that they should have what they want when they want it. Unfortunately for them I am one of those rare specimens who lives within their means and saves up for stuff I cant afford outright. Therefore until they are 18 they have to either wait for a birthday/christmas or go without the luxuries they crave.

I do have a credit card but I rarely use it. Every now and then put a £10 purchase on it lol.

Unless other people are coming to you for money to bail them out, why would you care how anyone else finances things?

I saved 3/4s of the maintenance my x paid for a long time because I knew it would stop one day and of course, just as dc1 is about to go to college, it's stopped. I also try to save a tiny bit of my wages so that if I have an unexpected expense it doesn't ruin me. I don't see debt as a moral failing! (as somebody said upthread) but it would cause me a little bit of anxiety tbh. I prefer not to have debt. I prefer to have savings.

DD is 18 and has savings. She wants to leave home at some point. She worked 2 jobs to buy her own car. She rarely splurges on clothes or fancy meals - tends to go drinking once a week - usually a house party

Some can save. Others like to spend.

I do think it depends some things some people seem to look down on I don't see a problem with

If you have savings but are offered interest free credit on something which you can afford the monthly repayments I'm going to do that so I still have that emergency fund even though I could afford to buy it outright I then wouldn't have the safety net if the car broke down/need a new washing machine etc

I don't think it is just age that comes into it either I think a lot is your mentality. My daughter is talking about moving in with her boyfriend and has been back and forth about rent or buying - they reckon within 18 months they can save about a 20% deposit on a 3 bed house if they each carry on living at home. She said if she's buying she wants a 3 bedroom so they don't have to move in the future because 'we can figure out what to do with the extra room once the kids have moved out' - which I kind of think she got from us because we brought (our current) 3 bed house when we moved in together on the basis that we wanted kids - she's clearly thinking long term - yet this is the girl who previously money burnt a hole in her pocket - but if she's got a goal she will do it

I was brought up to live within my means. Now I find myself as a single mum with a low mortgage, some savings and no debt besides my mortgage so I am extremely grateful for the way my parents raised me.

I think that many parents have infantilised their children over the last few generations. I knew I had to stand on my own two feet so I learnt to be financially responsible very quickly. A lot of twenty and thirty somethings feel no shame in going to their parents for their ‘inheritance’ before they are even dead and have no worries about parents/grandparents taking equity out of their home for them.

Hmm been here done that. Currently 31. Mortgage reduced by 100 quid and I refinanced a loan over longer and took 5k out to put a roof on conservatory. This made me payments 100 pound cheaper. I have started saving 450 every month. Which means I've saved for decking and a holiday. (Was turkey but its now butlins). I havent got much saved as I buy what I need etc. But stops debt

I don't think there is any shame in getting help from parents, or parents giving financial help. We could have bought without help from PIL but they wanted to help. I will do the same for my kids. I'd rather them have help when I'm alive, see them live more comfortably and enjoy life rather than see them struggle on until I die.

No-one knows how long they have. My cousin died at 31, my uncle at 46, my neighbour just died of breast cancer in her late 40s. May as well enjoy yourself as best you can while you can.

I wish sometimes I was like this though.
I have a very well paid job/career.

The kids don’t go without at all. They have clothes / food / toys / activities etc

I have a modest home 3 bed terraced, but location is expensive.
Despite my wage I have us a “ minimum wage “ to live on each month and every thing else went on mortgages and savings( also DS school ) . I do think now mortgage will be gone that I should lighten up a bit and I don’t upgrade to a nice car, go on a fancy holiday or something 😂

I feel like having a big house /mortgage doesn't necessarily fit with the idea of being profligate. It's an asset, and paying it off every month increases the share of the asset you own.

Some can save. Others like to spend.

there has to be a balance. Life is too short.

If the lockdown and the pandemic has proven something, is that you'd be a fool not enjoying yourself whilst you can. When lockdown has made no difference to your life because you have scrimped and saved, and refused any joy, any holiday abroad, any life... you basically wasted your life.

Going into ridiculous debts for a wedding, a Chelsea Tractor bigger than your house, or putting grey sparkling carpet from floor to ceiling in your house is the over extreme.. and not clever either.

Balance.

@NiceGerbil

YANBU but it's a result of a lot of things not just people are feckless.

Houses cost a bomb.
Once you're in massive debt psychologically what's a bit more.
Also a desirable side effect for the govt of paying for university is lots of young people are in debt early. And locked into the system.
Young people at university were always a pita for govt. Very big on activism. Lock then into the work borrow spend cycle earlier and they don't have the luxury of activism nearly so much.

In the end the answer is manipulation for the interests of the capitalist machine. In s nutshell.

Exactly this. People have bought into the idea that people are more feckless now. This isn't the case, society is more unequal now than in the mid 20th century to the end of it. People are simply doing what they do now in the times they find themselves in as people did in the past in the times people found themselves in then and vastly more money has filtered up to the super rich since the last financial crash.

I think you are allowed 20k each in savings before benefits would even be means tested

I think that's been the case for a long time, we spoke about it when I bought my first house back in the late 1980s.

Quite. @shrodingersbiscuit Interest rates are nothing, pensions are unreliable, ISAs not offering much interest at the moment. No wonder people invest in property if they can.

Ah, the old rebranding debt as finance. I'm with you OP.