To be gutted I got turned down by OU to study PGCE

[MrsDontDoMuch]

I’m just a bit upset, and wondered if anyone had any experience of being rejected by OU?

I work as a class room assistant and have over twenty years experience of working in schools. I have GCSE’s, A levels, a degree, and diploma in performance (ABRSM piano). I recently applied to OU to study a PGCE. I wrote what I thought was a good application and personal statement.

I’ve just received feedback that I was rejected because I did not ‘demonstrate a clear understanding of curriculum reforms’ and ‘maybe I should work on improving my GCSE grades’. I did get a C in maths and English amongst several other subjects but a D in science (my mum died when I was doing my GCSE’s) and I would have thought A levels and a degree would outweigh my GCSE grades?

AIBU to think this is just patronising feedback? I’m thinking it’s because I’m in my early 50’s and maybe they think I’m just too old? I just can’t stop crying, I really wanted to be a primary school teacher.

@MrsDontDoMuch

Ok I thought it said minimum D in science on the application form, no worries.

Definitely a minimum of a C in Science before the start of the course.

You can retake your GCSEs. Either find an online course that includes the cost of the course, or just study at home and book yourself onto the exam (usually done in January and May/June)

Another one assuming you're in Wales as that's the only PGCE that the OU offer.

If she hasn't done primary training she's unlikely to get a job in a primary school

As a specialist, yes she will get a music job in a primary school, most likely as PPA cover. I am saying as a music teacher not as a classroom teacher.
I know this because I am a secondary trained music teacher who has taught a music specialism in primary schools in recent years. There is no such thing as primary music training therefore secondary trained musicians are the best people to fulfil this role in Primary schools.

As I say, the new model music curriculum strongly encourages schools to provide 1 hour per week of music with a newly derived curriculum that is much more challenging than the past requirements. They will need specialists for this.

@Ploughingthrough

If she hasn't done primary training she's unlikely to get a job in a primary school

As a specialist, yes she will get a music job in a primary school, most likely as PPA cover. I am saying as a music teacher not as a classroom teacher.
I know this because I am a secondary trained music teacher who has taught a music specialism in primary schools in recent years. There is no such thing as primary music training therefore secondary trained musicians are the best people to fulfil this role in Primary schools.

As I say, the new model music curriculum strongly encourages schools to provide 1 hour per week of music with a newly derived curriculum that is much more challenging than the past requirements. They will need specialists for this.

Doing PPA cover isn't going to get her probationary year done and passed.

She can do her NQT year in a middle or high school then transfer to primary music specialist. I'm not making these jobs up, I have actually done it. It's a bit of a long way round but it's a way of teaching primary age kids but in the subject she's already highly proficient at.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Also, watch your apostrophes on the application form. GCSEs doesn’t need one. Sorry if that sounds patronising x"

It's a bit old fashioned to put apostrophes before the plural 's' after an abbreviation, but not totally wrong. Look it up instead of being patronising.

It was ridiculously patronising, but was true.

I’d like to think a primary school teacher knew and taught the current, correct apostrophe usage and used them correctly in their app.
Saying it was customary to use apostrophes in abbreviations in the 1980s and earlier (which I agree, it was) or in the US doesn’t make it ok usage for a current aspiring teacher.

It is when the person has a degree and years of experience working as a classroom assistant. She is just the sort of person they need to become a teacher. Yes she can go back and retake her GCSEs but what a waste of time.

Her experience suggests she will have mastered the practical day-to-day skills, but a teacher needs to be a well educated person with strong academics. Countries with strong academic outcomes all insist on good academic grades in order to start training as a teacher---not just practical or interpersonal skills.

Of course, the OP may be perfectly capable of getting good GSCE passes if she retakes now, in which case, no problem.

@MrsDontDoMuch

Ok I thought it said minimum D in science on the application form, no worries.

Perhaps consider an Access to Further Education course?

@Chewbecca

I’d like to think a primary school teacher knew and taught the current, correct apostrophe usage and used them correctly in their app. Saying it was customary to use apostrophes in abbreviations in the 1980s and earlier (which I agree, it was) or in the US doesn’t make it ok usage for a current aspiring teacher.

I was taught it was wrong to do that at school in the 70s

@Butwasitherdriveway

You need a c in science, and to show that you understand the curriculum . The PGCE doesn't really teach you about that.

The PGCE doesn't tech much at all, it's more go and teach and we will see if you are any good.

It obviously doesn't teach how to spell teach

Can’t believe they expected you to know about curriculum reform. I can’t remember if I did or not when I started my PGCE (and it was only in September 2019!!). If I did, I definitely wasn’t asked to demonstrate it at any point (including at my job interview).

@ameliajanes this is so true. I learned sweet FA on my PGCE. All I got was experience in the classroom - all the things I now know about pedagogy, curriculum etc I taught myself. Even our essays were basically totally self-directed without much input from the uni.

did not ‘demonstrate a clear understanding of curriculum reforms’

You will have missed out some current buzzword from your personal statement. I have been out of primary teaching for several years now so I don't know what the current reforms and schemes are.
Back in the day, around 2003, when I was applying for my first couple of primary teaching posts, "Every Child Matters" was the big thing. You needed to mention it and how you would implement in your classroom on your personal statement - applications were being rejected if it wasn't there. It was also topic number 1 in interviews!
The thinking being that if you weren't aware of it as "the next big thing" you weren't up-to-date enough.

There's probably something similar at the moment which you need to mention!

Hi OP,

Taking a PGCE and going into teaching is hard work - hard work. I took a PGCE (never went into teaching) and my husband took a PGCE - did go into teaching and is still a teacher 11 years later (was full time but part time now) so I feel I have some inside knowledge.

In my opinions the key qualities you need are commitment, resilience, (to be tough and thick skinned with difficult class behaviour and feedback) and a love of learning. To be honest I want to put all of those qualities in capitals. When I applied for a PGCE I thought the qualities you needed were to be nice and to like kids. Wrong! Although I'm sure those qualities help. I wish I had been told you had to be tough and resilient. The teachers that I saw that were nice and liked kids but were not tough or resilient were still being brought to tears by their job a decade in (although to be fair I trained secondary).

My husband was considering applying to teach - so he did a night class in GCSE science to turn his D into an A. It was no big deal to do this alongside his full time job - he likes learning. It would worry me if you find the time and effort to retake a couple of GCSEs too much. There will be a hell of a lot more work than that for your PGCE and if you have 20 years experience working in schools what's one more year while you upgrade your GCSEs?

The other thing I wanted to say is that even though you work in school you might not fully understand the workload of a teacher - (although of course you may do but just to make sure). I volunteered in a school one day a week for a year before starting my course. The teachers seemed to walk in and teach (secondary ICT) and everything looked fairly straightforward. Of course I knew that there would be work at home but I did not realise I would have to work all day/evening and weekends pretty much. In the session on work life balance on my course we were pretty much told we wouldn't be able to keep up any weekly commitments such as a sport etc and if for example it was Mother's day or a loved ones birthday then to "buy them a gift online and tell them that you will take them out in the holidays." My husband was full time for a few years and it was not sustainable for family life or his health. He works 3 days now and that is great. Anybody who has a family life (or any term time life) and teaches full time primary has my admiration.

You may have a very full understanding of the role and the commitment to do it, and if so great, but do think long and hard. Being a great TA does not mean you want to or necessarily should be a teacher. I guess I'm saying be careful what you wish for - make sure it is really what you want. If it is what you want - don't cry - find out how you can upgrade your GCSEs with a view to applying next year. As well as meeting the required criteria the commitment shown by that decision will reflect well on your application next year I am sure.

Good luck with whatever you decide

I agree with an Access course - ideal for someone wanting to return to education after a break.

As an aside, I am (just) 52 and did O Levels.

I mean, obviously you really need to know about the curriculum. I just don’t remember being asked about it specifically (but this is probably irrelevant as I did a PGCE in early years - fat lot of good that did me!). It’s like the standards, though, you sort of learn it as you go.

If you want to teach you will have to retake science GCSE. I’ll be frank and say that I have a C in GCSE maths (thank god) but I would not have been in any way prepared to teach upper key stage 2 maths if I hadn’t grafted all summer before I started my job. I sat my GCSEs ten years ago and that was an absolute miracle of a grade. Turns out I’m actually really quite good at maths now, but I guess that’s why you have to take the skills tests in Maths and English before you are accepted on the PGCE - to show you have decent skills. Even if you do retake your Science GCSE, you should make sure your knowledge in the other key areas is sound and up to date.

Primary PGCE courses are competitive and you did not meet the basic requirements. Therefore if you really want to teach then you need to take note of some of the really good advice on here.

@Alittlenonsensenowandthen

Op, you have a degree in music and a performance dip so obviously a proficient musician. You also want to teach primary kids. May i point out the obvious and suggest teaching your instrument? No pgce required and you get paid in 2-3hrs what you get as a ta. I've been teaching privately for 17 years. Absolutely love it and work in schools as well. I could have and did research going as a full time primary teacher but i love working one to one and not being bound by a tick box curriculum!

Ha ha yes, I do teach my instrument privately, I think I was so focused and dead set on being a classroom teacher I kind of disregarded this subconsciously.

However I’ve had a change of heart and phoned our local music service this morning. I had a great chat with the manager who was more than happy with my qualifications and experience. As more schools are accepting visitors for face to face lessons there’s going to be quite a lot of instrumental teaching work going. Sadly a lot of peripatetic staff have left during the pandemic so they are looking to hire.

She also was saying that more and more schools are buying in whole class projects to cover PPA time and I could run an infant strings project (I’m also grade 8 cello). They will also pay me an hourly rate of 3 x what I currently earn!

Anyway I have a virtual interview with herself and head of department on Friday! I’m so excited. I’d better get practising and prepping myself.

Wish me luck!

Wow! That sounds amazing! The timing is obviously perfect. Good luck with the interview.

Oh that's a fantastic update! I'm sure you'll be a massive asset to the service, well done you for making the call! Good luck for your interview 😊

What a perfect outcome, good luck!

That sounds ideal! Good luck!

When I did my PGCE about 15 years ago I had to retake my science GCSE. I did it though the university where I was doing my course I think but before the course started, it was an equivalent qualification and there were quite a few of us taking it. Might be worth looking into it. This was UEL.

Schools direct teacher training. Have a Google in your local council/via UCAS for training providers. Some do salary direct others are through Student Finance funding