To be gutted I got turned down by OU to study PGCE

[MrsDontDoMuch]

I’m just a bit upset, and wondered if anyone had any experience of being rejected by OU?

I work as a class room assistant and have over twenty years experience of working in schools. I have GCSE’s, A levels, a degree, and diploma in performance (ABRSM piano). I recently applied to OU to study a PGCE. I wrote what I thought was a good application and personal statement.

I’ve just received feedback that I was rejected because I did not ‘demonstrate a clear understanding of curriculum reforms’ and ‘maybe I should work on improving my GCSE grades’. I did get a C in maths and English amongst several other subjects but a D in science (my mum died when I was doing my GCSE’s) and I would have thought A levels and a degree would outweigh my GCSE grades?

AIBU to think this is just patronising feedback? I’m thinking it’s because I’m in my early 50’s and maybe they think I’m just too old? I just can’t stop crying, I really wanted to be a primary school teacher.

@Mylovelyhorsee

PGCEs are insanely competitive I was turned down a few times on the basis on not enough experience, as soon as I got experience in a school I got a place. I’m surprised with all your experience that you didn’t get into the course. I’m a secondary teacher and have similar GCSEs to you, and a degree and an MA and my D in science was never an issue but my subject isn’t a science so maybe that’s why? Good luck and don’t give up, keep going.

A grade of C or above in Science is now required for all primary applicants. As you were Secondary, it is not relevant.

Scottish teaching qualifications can be transferred to teach in England. I did the PGDE at Glasgow and as I said before I only had a D in science. I have taught in England now for ten years. I have heard from colleagues you can’t transfer from England to Scotland but I’ve never looked into that so don’t know how true it is.

@MrsHamlet

I think, saraclara, that we are falling on deaf ears.

Yep. It's dispiriting.

I'm all for encouraging TAs to teach if they show the ability. But I've seen this happen. Older* teachers who don't understand the requirements these days and how difficult it is to get a place, giving them false confidence and it all ending in tears.

*not ageist here. I'm 65 and recently retired from teaching. But I didn't expect to be up to date with the requirements for training these days.

Sorry for the tips- silly phone.

Typos

@OctupusObsidian

I don't have any GCSEs - it's silly that universities are still requiring them.

Do have a PhD though.

It is GCSE or equivalent. So if you can demonstrate the subject knowledge in other ways (i.e. higher ranked qualifications in each of English, Maths, Science or qualifications from a different country), then that can be considered.

OP, some QTS providers accept equivalency qualifications, maybe contact a couple of universities.

The 'Assessment only' route is only suitable if the OP is already working as an unqualified teacher with class responsibility.

I'm not sure why some people are being so snippy!

Yup. The one I'm working with on AO has been on a very long journey but she will get there. It would have been far worse to let her apply and get rejected for something so obvious as an entry requirement... in fact, she's still not applied because she doesn't meet another requirement, but we're working on that. It'll be nearly 5 years from the first idea to her getting QTS but that's how it goes.

Surely exams taken over 30 years ago are completely pointless when applying for a further degree now. The curriculum would have changed substantially.

It's got nothing to do with the curriculum, it's an indicator of your ability. Curriculum changes, so even if you got an A you'll still have to get to grips with the current curriculum. But essentially, if you weren't able to get at least a C in the relevant subjects, it seems reasonable that they wouldn't consider you a good candidate for being able to teach them, unless you retake them and get a higher grade. It sounds as if the OP had extenuating circumstances, but it seems unlikely they'd take that into account 30 odd years later.

@LloydColeandtheCoconuts

If your teaching colleagues said you can do this then there's no reason to disbelieve them. Continue to feel buoyed by their support. They obviously see something in you. I have RTFT yet but pp said to try other universities, this is definitely an option. Also some schools offer an apprenticeship scheme where TAs can train in their current school and then do 2 placements elsewhere. You'll be paid as an unqualified teacher which will increase once you pass and it's a year course. That might be something worth looking into. They do it in my school and my colleagues who are training now didn't apply until July.

FWIW I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I have to admit I am not fully up to speed of current educational reforms and despite having a C in Science I wouldn't be able to walk in a year 6 class and teach it confidently.
I teach in SEN secondary btw

Trying other universities is NOT an option, she does not meet the national requirements.

Any kind of apprenticeship is NOT an option, she does not meet the national requirements.

I feel for the OP but this is a hoop she is going to have to jump through.

@DoubleDeckerSwimmer

Trying other universities IS an option though, Sheffield Hallam (eg) will let you sit a science equivalency exam.

@DoubleDeckerSwimmer

Trying other universities IS an option though, Sheffield Hallam (eg) will let you sit a science equivalency exam.

I have to agree with pp. Teachers who are currently working and who did their training even just a few years ago may well not be up to speed with the current requirements for places on PGCE courses - they have changed a fair bit in recent years.

It would be very wrong for the OU or any other institution to allow someone onto their course if that person realistically would have little chance of being employed in a school at the end of it.

Also, in response to another pp - why would GCSE's be correct or even 'old fashioned'? GCSEs in the OP was written as a plural - the apostrophe is absolutely not needed.

" in response to another pp - why would GCSE's be correct or even 'old fashioned'? GCSEs in the OP was written as a plural - the apostrophe is absolutely not needed."

As I said, putting an apostrophe before the s to make a plural of an abbreviation is old fashioned, but not incorrect. I also suggested looking it up if you don't believe me.
As an example, we would now write CDs and most style guides would recommend this, but this does not mean that CD's is wrong, just old fashioned.

@Gwenhwyfar

" in response to another pp - why would GCSE's be correct or even 'old fashioned'? GCSEs in the OP was written as a plural - the apostrophe is absolutely not needed."

As I said, putting an apostrophe before the s to make a plural of an abbreviation is old fashioned, but not incorrect. I also suggested looking it up if you don't believe me.
As an example, we would now write CDs and most style guides would recommend this, but this does not mean that CD's is wrong, just old fashioned.

Using an apostrophe when pluralising acronyms or abbreviations is only acceptable where it clarifies a possible confusion. That is not the case in the OP.

In your example of CDs, using an apostrophe would be acceptable if one was using capital letters throughout the sentence or sign, where CDS would be confusing. But not otherwise.

"6

See Lynne Truss's 'Eats, Shoots and Leaves' (2003). She writes on p46:

only one significant task has been lifted from the apostrophe's workload in recent years: it no longer has to appear in the plurals of abbreviations ... . Until quite recently, it was customary to write "MP's" and "1980's" - and in fact this convention still applies in America."

Quote is half way down this page
english.stackexchange.com/questions/55970/plurals-of-acronyms-letters-numbers-use-an-apostrophe-or-not

The fact that OP uses as an old convention might confuse those posters who insist that she is younger than she claims to be...

"Using an apostrophe when pluralising acronyms or abbreviations is only acceptable where it clarifies a possible confusion. That is not the case in the OP.

In your example of CDs, using an apostrophe would be acceptable if one was using capital letters throughout the sentence or sign, where CDS would be confusing. But not otherwise."

As I explain with the quote above, that's a fairly recent change so, as I explained, OP's use is old fashioned, but not completely incorrect.

OP maybe this has been mentioned before (I haven't read the whole thread) but you can't have done GCSEs and be in your early 50s (unless you took them before 5th year / Yr 11 equivalent).

GCSEs were first taken in summer of 1988. If you'd taken GCSEs you wouldn't be 50 until 1 September 2021 at the earliest.

Is there maybe an issue with how you've completed the form?

The OP has none of the GCSEs needed. They are not only short on one. There's no way their application would have been accepted. GCSE equivilents ARE accepted by the OU but you need to have them already, likewise GCSEs before beginning the course with the OU.

Other qualifications are irrelevant, those basics are essential.

That's from the application process documentation everyone is to read before applying.

@MrsDontDoMuch you need to resit or get the equivilent qualifications for English, maths (both require a B minimum) and science (C for primary) to do the OU PGCE or study the equivilents before you reapply.

In England, it's grade 4 equivalent, which is not a B

Forgot the picture.

equivilent qualifications for English, maths (both require a B minimum) and science (C for primary) to do the OU PGCE or study the equivilents

Ouch. That actually made me wince. Please tell me you're not a teacher @Becca19962014

equivAlent.

@MrsHamlet

The only PGCE the OU runs is PGCE (Wales). Which requires a B for English and maths and a C in science for primary. The requirements are quite clear in the application notes for the course, which includes details for equivilents.

The OP has specifically mentioned the OU course not a general PGCE.

@saraclara opps. Actually it was an autocorrect, one I missed. Oh for an edit button!!! Not currently a teacher, no. But I have taught in various settings including for the OU.

Not that you'd believe it based on that

[quote Trunkysbun]@DoubleDeckerSwimmer

Trying other universities IS an option though, Sheffield Hallam (eg) will let you sit a science equivalency exam. [/quote]
Yes, true, if she is approaching other universities with a view to working out how to get an equivalent science qualification then that may be worth doing. I was reading many (most) suggestions implying that different universities may give a different answer.

My phrase "jumping through the hoop" would encompass any of these methods. I don't think there will be any path forward without doing something, rightly or wrongly, and wanted to be really explicit about that.