Did everything used to be as extremist, hyperbolic and toxic?

[ATieLikeRichardGere]

Maybe I’ve got false nostalgia for a time that never existed, but it feels to me like narratives in public discourse are incredibly extreme and toxic these days. When I open up the news or social media it seems like everyone is constantly fuming and insulting one another, with a substantial dose of mutual cancellation and usually accompanied by advocating some extreme ideologies. Am I imagining this? What’s happening?

I have found it unsettling in particular to watch scientists tear chunks off one another on Twitter

Yes. I understand the 'key' Covid scientists, as they may be trying to communicate their findings during very difficult times and probably have their hands full.

What I find annoying is the sheer volume of junior researchers/scientists springing up on Twitter, tweeting about topics that are not even within their area of expertise, just aiming for a bit of free self-advancement and promotion (and followers taking their word as gospel)

trying to concise a nuanced argument into what is now 240 characters is not designed for shades of grey argument

Yes, and most people don't want to do any further research either

Not news related but everything now seems to be framed as a "traumatic experience". I had to go in to hospital recently for a very minor procedure that took 30 minutes and someone asked me after if I'd "had time to process the trauma yet".

You are not imagining it. One of the things that I’ve read, which rang true, is that opinions from the far ends of the spectrum seem to be given equal weight by the media as those opinions in the middle. For example, in a panel discussion, a host may have 3 guests: one representing far left view, one far right and one in the middle. This gives the appearance that all three opinions having equal weight. But in reality, the panel should be made up of more like ten people, with the majority of guests making up the middle ground opinion.
I try to keep this in mind when I read or watch some far out opinions!!
Also, technology has given everyone a microphone - but that doesn’t mean that everyone can sing well enough to record a song that people would want to buy!

The trend for censorship has been going on for decades. It is identitarianism which is being used to divide us. I agree that most people in real life (not SM world) are more rational and calmer but the trend is worrying and we need to defend free speech not be capitulate to cancel culture and reactionary extremists.

I suppose disinformation may play a role in some of the extreme hostility. For example, the radically different beliefs about the white helmets in Syria. If you believe they are a local humanitarian effort vs if you think that they are linked to al Qaeda and engaged in organ harvesting, it’s going to be difficult to agree, and also to accord the other side with respect. Similarly if you believe in QAnon or you don’t. These sides appear to live in fundamentally opposing realities that are impossible to reconcile. Why and how people have found themselves inside such different realities though is another question.

Someone on another thread said they'd not been on Social Media for years.
I really envy that. - how gentle your life might be, assuming you aren't constantly on news channels.
However I'm addicted to MN........ but one day

On the other hand, there are some topics where I can’t understand why people would struggle so much to have a nuanced discussion. A lot of people have mentioned the EU referendum and I agree that it was a massive flash point for hostility. The unfortunate thing to my mind is that there is also much worthy of genuine discussion about the EU and if it happened, to me it was lost in the shouting. Is the Common Agricultural Policy working? Has lobbying become a malign force? Have social cohesion policies been followed in the handling of the Greek debt crisis and what does this mean for future policy? What is the best way to manage migration to the EU, who should be responsible? How can the monetary system be improved to accommodate diverse economies? Would it be better as a two speed membership organisation? Those are some off the top of my head. But the standard of discussion was and I think remains poor. Instead we’ve got “remoaners” and “brexiteers” hating one another.

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

This is a really good introduction to how trigger warnings and concept creep are affecting students in university and how this is stopping reasonable debate on all number of things, leading to extreme polarisation of ideas. The book that followed from the article is also very good.

I think it is something to do with the discourse established around certain ideas that has been presented as the only intelligent perspective to have on a given topic.

For example, someone I know was disparaging of Shakespeare his contribution to literature and quoted me the ‘great white man theory’. I had never heard of this (English grad) and looked it up.

Online, there is a ‘meta’ culture that traces perspectives and builds/distorts them but it is the very perspectives themselves that I think the rest of society would question and see as polarised and perhaps lacking in balance - as someone upthread said they are extreme views. I think this tactic is employed to create space around an area to let real stuff happen (as in lgbt rights) but the fringe stuff is being underpinned and delivered as mainstream in an attempt to cultivate change and center those who identify with it.

@NightlyBye
That’s a great article. I actually went to a US college graduating somewhat before this was written. I feel that it was not yet like that then. There were light shades of it and the odd incident, but it appears as though things may have really snowballed in the last few years. Someone made a complaint against me for saying the word “bitch” in an ill advised rap performance once, but at that point I was able to completely laugh it off and argued that this was a way over sensitive response to self-referential rap lyrics. No one cancelled me! I’m scared to think what could happen now.

@Nightlybye

That’s an interesting article.

I agree that we are causing the very fear in non traumatised students and ‘transferring’ the perspective through the intimacy of online interaction.

Early on in the days of the internet, I was researching something for teaching. I remember coming across a resource and being shocked that at the advice on it. It was targeted at young students and in my mind, would very clearly lead them to experience the very thing they were trying to avoid. Practically it was poor information but to posit itself as though from a position of trust it set off alarm bells in me.

I remember reading about TEFL resources circulating in China that reinforced some really dubious, pornagraphic scenarios and how girls could act in them. This would have been picked up here but abroad, under the guise of a ‘teacher’ with an obedient audience, you just don’t create that situation. It’s grooming, imv.

I think it is all so devoid of proper context it is very hard to work out what is really going on and I think we are expending a huge amount of emotional energy in filling the gaps and maintaining the emotional and mental equilibrium needed for real life.

I am off social media pretty much - am just winding things down everywhere. It really burnt itself out.

I remember someone's late teens DD posting on feminist chat that MN was full of Terfs, the mother was exasperated with her views.
The DD posted that she never reads newpapers as they are all biased trash (or words to that effect) - well if you never read papers where are you getting all your info. I look at international front pages sometimes to see what is going on around the world, a search brings them up online.
Also many boast on MN about never watching mainstream tv, bbc etc, but if you never watch it (which is fine if you don't want to) you don't see the nightly news programme, I'm sure young people aren't tuned to mainstream radio - so what do they know that's going on in the world. I visited DD recently (mid thirties) and lost track of news as it was never on. This would have been calming if it wasn't for the many murder/real life crime/detective etc that we watched instead!

@Quincie

I remember someone's late teens DD posting on feminist chat that MN was full of Terfs, the mother was exasperated with her views. The DD posted that she never reads newpapers as they are all biased trash (or words to that effect) - well if you never read papers where are you getting all your info. I look at international front pages sometimes to see what is going on around the world, a search brings them up online. Also many boast on MN about never watching mainstream tv, bbc etc, but if you never watch it (which is fine if you don't want to) you don't see the nightly news programme, I'm sure young people aren't tuned to mainstream radio - so what do they know that's going on in the world. I visited DD recently (mid thirties) and lost track of news as it was never on. This would have been calming if it wasn't for the many murder/real life crime/detective etc that we watched instead!

They get all their opinions from twitter and Facebook.