Did everything used to be as extremist, hyperbolic and toxic?

[ATieLikeRichardGere]

Maybe I’ve got false nostalgia for a time that never existed, but it feels to me like narratives in public discourse are incredibly extreme and toxic these days. When I open up the news or social media it seems like everyone is constantly fuming and insulting one another, with a substantial dose of mutual cancellation and usually accompanied by advocating some extreme ideologies. Am I imagining this? What’s happening?

Yes I agree that everyone seems to be in a permanent rage about something or another these days! I've lost count of the times I've seen the word 'fury' in the heading of a newspaper article.

@LunaNorth

2016 was the tipping point for me. Things seem demonstrably worse since then.

I agree. The referendum.

everyone seems to be in a permanent rage about something or another these days

I KNOW, why can't people just be nice instead of banging on and on about rape culture, racism, xenophobia, homophobia or whatever?

@namechangeaga1n

I agree. The referendum.

So do I. I was renting them with a mix of international, European and British. The atmosphere and relationships changed overnight. People would no longer play along as they saw it so no more paying their share of the bills, council tax, etc. It’s as though they protested that way.

@enigma16

everyone seems to be in a permanent rage about something or another these days

I KNOW, why can't people just be nice instead of banging on and on about rape culture, racism, xenophobia, homophobia or whatever?

Amazingly enough it’s possible that fight all those things without being constantly furious.

The referendum

I think the toxicity is world wide. Not much to do with the referendum IMO

Amazingly enough it’s possible that fight all those things without being constantly furious.

Is it? What fight against injustice was ever won by asking nicely?

Such as these?

Agree
I blame Brexit and social media

Mainly social media actually

I KNOW, why can't people just be nice instead of banging on and on about rape culture, racism, xenophobia, homophobia or whatever?

These things are all bad , no denying it
But so is people being angry and argumentative all the time
And intolerant of diverse opinions

@enigma16

A lot more than I think you believe.

Protests don’t make changes alone. There are often many other tools being employed that range from the legal, the charitable, the religious, other related bodies that monitor change (anti poverty orgs for example).

There is a real danger with some people that they don’t know enough about what different bodies do and perceive the only solution to be protesting, etc. The loudest shouters, usually.

Smurfsarethefuture

No, of course not, and no-one is trying to undermine the valuable work of any such organisations. But we are talking about "narratives in public discourse that are incredibly extreme and toxic these days", and my point is that people have the right to be angry about injustices that continue to exist, some of which are getting worse such as the economic inequality some posters mentioned, or did you read the thread about housing? Are people allowed to be angry about not having real security in housing?

Anger used to be seen as a sin. No matter how much justification you had you were supposed to squash it down, especially if you were the powerless group. That’s not good. However, the pendulum has now swung the opposite way so anger is seen as virtuous. It’s not just about people getting angry about their own suffering, it’s that other people are expected to display anger on their behalf. If you’re not sufficiently angry about injustice you are thought not to care. Working quietly and calmly against it isn’t enough. And if you have suffered, anger is the expected response even though that’s not how everyone responds.

I also think a lot of people on social media have confused expressing anger online with actual activism. Certainly on Twitter...

Interesting points TheCountessofFitzdotterel

people on social media have confused expressing anger online with actual activism

There seems to be an overspill into RL, for sure

@enigma16

Ah, I agree with you. I read the housing thread with interest as a mature person who stills rents😟

There is a particularly pernicious line of argument that I think is designed to irritate typical non protesters so much that they will inform themselves and protest. It’s a o’Shea until they feel the pain tactic and I think it switches more people off than anything else.

O’Shea? Don’t know where that came from!

@mustlovegin

people on social media have confused expressing anger online with actual activism

Or basic expression as in ‘I feel angry because...’

Instead we have created tension that spreads and leads to anger. It’s the kind of thing you avoided in the past as dissension, provocation and agitation.

I think Big Brother on Channel 4 was part of this. I was on digital spy at the time of the first one, and the level of rage, hurt, righteousness etc on there was absolutely hysterical.

I joined in tbf.

YANBU - social media, innit?

Twitter is practically an engine for misunderstanding and likely to result in hyperbole and not going into enough detail. Also people can share misleading stories with sensational headlines easily without any proof at all (eg 'Look at these MUSLIMS attacking an INNOCENT PERSON in Manchester' - when nothing in the video confirms the aggressors are Muslims, their target is innocent or it is in Manchester)

Also the interconnectedness and public recording of everything means you can dig up any contradiction/apparent hypocrisy from the last 10 years, plus everything spirals out so that people have to apologise for what they said, and people have to apologise for ever supporting the person who said the thing (regardless of whether on something utterly unrelated) or even retweeting them once or whatever

@Echobelly

That is what I mean by it having a media agenda. By creating the opportunities for misinformation we have created a continual source of free content and lots of tasty headlines for click bait.

I have found it unsettling in particular to watch scientists tear chunks off one another on Twitter. They are not critiquing one another’s scientific arguments - that veneer has slipped long ago and we are now in the territory of personal attacks. It’s totally bizarre. No one comes away looking good. They are probably stressed out by the covid situation which I appreciate but in the same way as we all know drunk texting an ex is bad idea, some may need to recognise that stress tweeting the world is about equally as unproductive and embarrassing the next day. But if these scientists can’t keep it together, I’m not sure there’s much hope for the rest of us.

have found it unsettling in particular to watch scientists tear chunks off one another on Twitter

YANBU, but that is your problem, twitter isn't ever representitive of the real world (just like MN), trying to concise a nuanced argument into what is now 240 characters is not designed for shades of grey argument but just opposite sides posting rage baiting op-eds from the guardian/mirror and telegraph etc that they either agree or disagree with.

Social media can be easily gamed, hence why Twitter and here on MN thought Labour/remain/clinton was a shoe in, a large proportion can be blamed at the old print media trying to survive with click/rage bait articles to gain clicks and shares, it is on us to realise that everyone of us has shared some op-ed article as some kind of 'proof of argument' in our time whilst also laughing and rejecting the opposite

Politics has become the new religion, you either believe 100% or you are a unedecated heritic, it's been on display for the past 10 years on MN despite Labour not coming to power, brexit being a thing without the economic downfall as soon as voted leave, Biden still building the wall and keeping kids in cages, france becoming a utopia because they voted in Macron over Le Pen and Macron's second in command comming across even more right wing than her.

Social media is future murdoch bogey man, problem is that it will be very difficult to blame on the right wing.

Remember the multiple 1000 post threads on here about nothing more than 'Oh Jeremy Corbyn' rants at Glanstonbury?

Yes. It was exactly like this. Then they had a couple of world wars and it all went a bit too far. So after that people tried really really hard to be nicer to each other and to accept that it was possible - even healthy - for rational people to sometimes hold opposite views. Republicans lunched with Democrats; a Tory MP birthed a Labour PM, and people tried to talk about and accept differences. Compromise and social mobility were virtuous.

That attitude lasted about half a century and then it broke. Internet didn’t help, enabling anonymity and making weirdos able to form large clubs, but it would have happened anyway. As soon as living memory of war dies, people forget the attitudes that started them.

What you’re seeing is the rise of the ‘People should believe everything I believe and if they don’t then they don’t matter and I can treat them anyway I like.”

It doesn’t end well. Don’t trust anyone who despises people who disagree with them, and try not to do it yourself.