Poor wee screaming baby forced to get her ears pierced!

[Rumpel]

I heard a wee baby screaming today and passed by Claire's shitey accessories to see a LO of about 12 months, bright red and hysterical having her ears pierced whilst her Mother just stood like a doughball watching. It made me red and and very, very sad.

I think piercing babies ears should be outlawed in this country. No freedom of choice for baby is there?

Not because I think it is chavy (which I do) but because it is not the child's choice, they have more chance of infection, scarring, tearing, hole closing up etc.

The more times you get your ears pierced = the more scar tissue= more complications. I had a client once whose lobes were split into 3 different pieces because of this - please I implore you - let it be your child's choice.

Oh no not a troll. In fact I am a paid up party for the Christmas Do, I look forward to swapping opinions with you all, you all sound very interesting!

Tail docking?? I am outta here...

signed it. thanks mog

Mmmmm! Not quite sure how I feel about this as like bonitaMia I had my ears pierced very early in life (no pictures of me exist without them so it must have been within days) and frankly I've always loved them.

I'd never given it a second thought until I suggested it getting DD's done to DP and he was outraged. DD's don't have ears pierced as the counter arguments seem fair enough to me.

What I take a bit of issue with (I am of the pierced/tattooed variety of human being) is exactly how piercings are done.
It is true that piercings needn't hurt at all. I have pierced my own ears (nothing but a wipe of TCP and a sewing needle), had them pierced with a gun (I presume this is how it happens in Claire's) and had it pierced with a needle in a piercing studio. Only one of these option hurts at all.

It's the gun!

The susequent cleanliness issues I've found are mostly due to hair near your ears. Babies don't have a lot of that so presumably don't have the cleanliness thing to worry about in the way an older person would.

3andnomore, on your post of
Fri 09-Nov-07 22:50:41
you are calling "idiots" and other nice things to millions of people around the world, including my mum, for one, who had my ears pierced. Can I just say that you are an ignorant twat?
Ah, I feel better now.

had my dds ears pierced when they were 10. that was young enough.

it really hurts.

onebatmother Tue 13-Nov-07 22:32:03
"very little friction"????

I don't know about yours, but there was friction all right -for hours- when my dd came out.

lol bonita!
ooooh yes, I remember that..
No, I meant because they've been floating for 9 months!

So Easywriter - will you be signing the petition?!? Had your dp not have been outraged about your earpiercing suggestion, would you have gone for the gun or needle and TCP option with your lo?

(Not aimed at Ew) The fact is piercing ears hurts. Is it necessary to inflict pain for aesthetic reasons on a lo without them being old enough to choose this for themselves? In my opinion it is unecessary. If you think so too, please make you opinion count by following Looneytunes link and signing the online government petition. Thanks

no

I can understand why many people doubt it is a good idea. But it is important not to lose the perspective.

I find it alarming that ear-piercing is considered by some as "child abuse". Having gone to universty with a girl who suffered real child abuse (her dad was an alcoholic), I feel apalled by some comments I have read here. If it wasn't tragic I woud PMSL. Child abuse, in case you didn't know, is traumatising, life-changing, and causes a damage that in most cases is irreparable. You may dislike it or be concerned about the baby's pain, but, don't offend real child abuse victims with this nonsense.

Re calling it "mutilation": another exageration. FYI, if you don't ear earrings for a while (like I did when I was a child) they can heal up and partially close until they are unnoticeable. I had to have mine reopened as a teen. If you haven't used very heavy earrings, people normally don't notice whether you have pierced ears or not. I wouldn't call this a dramatic body-change that will have a permanent effect on your life, like losing a limb or having your genitals cut off or having a big tattoo in your arm with the address of your favourite chippie.

Yes, it can be painful (especially with some pistols which make a noise and scare the babies), but not that painful (judging by the amount of people who voluntarily have it done, even several times). I cannot say because I cannot remember. Somehow I doubt people would do it, if it caused the baby more distress than a vaccine.

Yes, it can be harmful, if not cared properly after the procedure. And I personally wouldn't trust a 6 year old to look after it. Much easier if this is done by mum.

Yes, it can have social consequences: she may be branded a "chav" or singled-out in pre-school or pitied for having "cruel" parents. But this consequences don't arise from having their ears pierced, but from the society we live in and the fact that some people cannot stand anything or anybody that looks different from them.

gaah.
This is what I said on a previous thread bm:

"this perspective argument is really getting on my tits. Pain is pain. It's not less painful because another child feels more pain.

my position:
before kids: thought it was trashy, because of own snobbery.
Now: don't get as far as the snobbery (still probably under there) bcs too busy feeling shock that a mother could look her baby in the eye while doing that to them."

of course snobbery is under there, onebat. I can see it from miles, he he

Mummyofgirls - I think that had I done it I really couldn't say what I'd've opted for as it's one of those things where the more you think about it, the less reason there is to do it. (I hope I haven't lost you there).

I (like bonita) don't think this is anywhere near child abuse and is an insult to anyone who's suffered. I don't think it's on a parr with male or female circumcision either. It is different.
Though justifying why you'd out a child through that is hard as I think there is no reason to.

I'm afraid I won't be signing any petitions though as I'm still not sure what I think about it.

I think it's unnescessary but not cruel. I am obviously open to suggestion and willing to change/get an opinion. So far no poster has put forward anything that polarizes my opinion in any particular way.

quoting "this perspective argument is really getting on my tits. Pain is pain. It's not less painful because another child feels more pain."

Child abuse has litte to do with what you or your tits think about it. Ear piercing does not consitute child abuse nor mutilation. Get over it.

i didn't say child abuse is getting on my tits, i said the 'perspective argument' ie the concept of relative harm was...

"Ear piercing does not consitute child abuse nor mutilation".

Actually,IMO, it DOES constitute both.

I personally think that deliberately causing a child pain without good reason is child abuse, regardless of how shortlived or minor YOU perceive that pain to be. and cosmetic effect is not, IMO, good reason.

The fact that someone else has suffered abuse to a greater degree doesn't negate the pain suffered by a baby/toddler having her ears pierced.

bonita, OK you hold your opinion, and care for yourself/your kids as you think fit.

But your "Get over it" comment is I tghink entirely inappropriate in this debate.

clumsymum, sorry about that. I just feel patronised and even isnulted by some people here, coming from a country where people have their babies ear-pierced and the said babies are not abused in any way. In fact Spain came 5th in a study made recently about countries where it is best to bring up children. I think it is not bad for a country full of cruel and idiot mothers, don't you think?

What is so bad about tongue piercing? Should I know?

Only skimmed through recent messages but I noticed bonitaMia mentioned having gone to uni with someone who suffered real child abuse. My dh was TERRIBLY abused as a child, the stories are heart-breaking and rarely come out. I just asked HIM whether or not he thinks piercing a baby's ears is child abuse and he said 'YES it fucking IS!' with a very angry face.

Just wanted to share that.

Thanks

Have any of you had babies that needed blood tests shortly after birth? My LO did and it was awful every time - as you know, they just stick a needle into a vein and let the blood drip out - she screamed and screamed and afterwards seemed to be so traumatised, she just withdrew into herself for several hours each time and was totally unresponsive.

Every time it happened I bawled my eyes out! Post-birth hormones or no, it was the worst thing to hear her cry like that, and that was for a valid medical reason!

So I do find it VERY hard to understand how a new mum could stand to hear those awful cries for something needless like ear piercing.

Pain is less severe when you understand why it's happening and can rationalise it (or even opted to have it, i.e. with older children). Babies don't understand anything! How are they supposed to know 'it's only ear piercing'?

bonita mia

I do think that 'ignorant twat' to 3andnomore was borderline abusive and I think your general tone has been pretty .. sharp, lets say.

I am sorry that you feel patronised and insulted, but I don't think you need to.

You are being disagreed with, and strongly, by people who hold an opposing pov and want to get it across.

I do hope, if you review the thread,that you don't really think that anyone wants to insult the mothers of your country?

It is nigh on impossible not to get defensive when the way that your parents/country/religion do things is criticized.

But is it possible for you to at least consider that - although lots and lots of good, kind people have done this for many many years - it may nevertheless be wrong?

And as clumsymum said and looneytune demonstrated - one child's terrible suffering doesn't, unfortunately, remove the lesser suffering of another child.

I do believe that inflicting any unnecessary pain on a child is an abuse - of power, of trust. Not necessarily a malicious, informed one, but nevertheless an abuse.

This will be easy to mock - so pompous - but it is meant very sincerely.

onebatmother - very well said!

looneytune, my friend never included her ear-piercing as abuse. I think she's too traumatised by the other things that actually changed her life forever, and I dare say you would actually offend her if you so much as hinted that her ear-piercing was abuse. Again, different cultures, different perceptions. Did I say culture? Oops, sorry for mentioning the "c" word again.
I think I'll leave you lot to it, anyway.

I'm a pierced & tattooed person myself.

None of these things was particularly painful, but in each case I made a decision ('I think ... will look good. I am aware a) that it's going to hurt a bit & b) that some people will draw conclusions about me based on my appearance')

Those are decisions my dc can make in their own time & their own way - I just don't think I have the right to decide that they'd look cute with pierced ears.

Even if I knew it'd be painless, I'd still feel it was inappropriate.