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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this was sexual assault?

41 replies

Opal93 · 30/03/2021 22:14

A close male friend of mine had an experience aged 14 which, if the other way round would definitely be considered assault. He was with a girl who kept trying to pressure him to have sex with her and he didn’t want to. He felt he just wasn’t ready. She pushed and pushed and kept saying it’s because I’m ugly and then wanted her to let him perform oral sex on him. She went on and on, saying if he didn’t think she was ugly he would let her and, he gave in and let her. He says he always regretted the experience as he just wasn’t ready but it’s had a lasting effect on him as he feels angry when he thinks about it and it has always put him off oral sex even to this day and he is 30. I think if he had been female this would definitely be considered sexual assault. Would you agree that this experience would count as sexual assault?

OP posts:
thatwasme22 · 31/03/2021 16:45

Not sexual assault, more harassment. They were both kids and I would say the exact same if the genders were reversed.

MatildaTheCat · 31/03/2021 16:52

Yes it would, he didn’t freely consent.

thatwasme22 · 31/03/2021 16:54

''Yes it would, he didn’t freely consent.''

that's the thing-he did though. It was emotional blackmail but that is not sexual assault in the same way emotionally bullying somebody is not physical assault.

jimmyhill · 31/03/2021 17:03

Abuse, yes; assault, no.

seadreams · 31/03/2021 17:09

Of course it is. Sexual assault includes any sexual act you were forced into against your will. Which this definitely is. Would any of you say that if a female victim had stopped struggling that she wasn’t assaulted!? If consent isn’t freely given then it’s assault plain and simple. And I totally disagree with the pp who says that consent was freely given! Badgering and pushing someone into saying yes is NOT consent

picklemewalnuts · 31/03/2021 17:11

@thatwasme22

''Yes it would, he didn’t freely consent.''

that's the thing-he did though. It was emotional blackmail but that is not sexual assault in the same way emotionally bullying somebody is not physical assault.

That's coercion. It's not freely given, it' being nagged and badgered into giving in.

It is, though if the kids were the same age and young then it's less clear.

joystir59 · 31/03/2021 17:11

How old was the girl? If 16 or over this was sexual assault.

joystir59 · 31/03/2021 17:12

Revised my pov, it was sexual assault regardless of her age: he didn't consent. Sexual harassment is nonphysical.

Opal93 · 31/03/2021 17:18

I didn’t actually ask her age but I assume she was the same age.

OP posts:
bubblebath62636 · 31/03/2021 17:18

It's a tricky one, of course it's not right but I'm not clued up enough to differentiate between abuse/assault.

WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo · 31/03/2021 17:44

I think if being pushed into doing something sexually you don't really want to do is sexual assault, then 100% of women have been sexually assaulted. Coercion is using threats or force which wasn't the case here either. Hopefully its given him some insight into what it feels like to be pressured into doing something sexually you don't really want to do and he's a better person for it with stronger boundaries.

Tomyoneandonly · 31/03/2021 17:46

Not abuse. Not sure if it's assault either. It's definitely had bad effects on his mh. Maybe the girl in ? Was abused and wanted to let someone know in a way she couldn't put into words. He should seek professional help. Something similar happened to my dB by a girl who was abused.

LuaDipa · 31/03/2021 18:09

I can’t say if it would be classified as assault but I think it is unacceptable to nag or coerce a person into performing a sexual act. The fact they were both children makes this so much worse.

WhereYouLeftIt · 31/03/2021 18:14

She coerced him, which means even if he said yes it was not true consent. Yes, I'd say she sexually assaulted him.

As you say, "if the other way round would definitely be considered assault", no question. The only difference is that females are generally smaller and weaker than males, so a female may also feel physically threatened without a physical threat being verbalised. But just because he probably didn't feel as physically at risk from her e.g. punching him, being cornered and probably aware of the bullying she could have set in motion, the rumours she could have spread about him; yes, undoubtedly sexual harassment, coercion and therefore, sexual assault.

Pumperthepumper · 31/03/2021 18:17

@seadreams

Of course it is. Sexual assault includes any sexual act you were forced into against your will. Which this definitely is. Would any of you say that if a female victim had stopped struggling that she wasn’t assaulted!? If consent isn’t freely given then it’s assault plain and simple. And I totally disagree with the pp who says that consent was freely given! Badgering and pushing someone into saying yes is NOT consent
I agree with this. Enthusiastic consent as a basic minimum.
Pumperthepumper · 31/03/2021 18:18

@Opal93

A close male friend of mine had an experience aged 14 which, if the other way round would definitely be considered assault. He was with a girl who kept trying to pressure him to have sex with her and he didn’t want to. He felt he just wasn’t ready. She pushed and pushed and kept saying it’s because I’m ugly and then wanted her to let him perform oral sex on him. She went on and on, saying if he didn’t think she was ugly he would let her and, he gave in and let her. He says he always regretted the experience as he just wasn’t ready but it’s had a lasting effect on him as he feels angry when he thinks about it and it has always put him off oral sex even to this day and he is 30. I think if he had been female this would definitely be considered sexual assault. Would you agree that this experience would count as sexual assault?
Also, why does it matter so much about ‘the other way round’?
KilljoysDutch · 31/03/2021 18:35

Also, why does it matter so much about ‘the other way round’?

Because sexual assault by women is trivialised both by the courts and men themselves, look at the comments on any news story about a teacher sleeping with an underage pupil it's always about how the boy was a snowflake to complain and that the commenter would have been thanking his lucky stars.

Pumperthepumper · 31/03/2021 18:46

@KilljoysDutch

Also, why does it matter so much about ‘the other way round’?

Because sexual assault by women is trivialised both by the courts and men themselves, look at the comments on any news story about a teacher sleeping with an underage pupil it's always about how the boy was a snowflake to complain and that the commenter would have been thanking his lucky stars.

But what difference does that make to this OP?
Sexnotgender · 31/03/2021 18:50

Non enthusiastic consent should be the standard. He didn’t give it and was coerced by the sounds of it.

TheDailyCarbunkle · 31/03/2021 18:59

If it was brought up in court there would be questions about her age, how threatened/unable to say no he felt etc etc.

The fact that a court might have questions about it doesn't mean she didn't humiliate, violate and upset him to the extent that it affects him to this day.

It bothers me that the question seems to be around some sort of law-based definition. Whether the law sees it as a crime doesn't much help the victim in terms of how they feel about it (though of course a conviction can help, by creating a sense of justice).

Think of it this way OP. If your friend had a friend who badgered him for a long time about handing over his bike to the point that he handed it over against his wishes and feels upset about it to this day, would you be asking 'did the friend steal the bike?' It'd be a pretty silly question wouldn't it? Regardless of whether it's technically stealing, it's a mean, aggressive act that upset your friend.

Why is it with sexual assault it always comes down to definitions and the law? Stupid question of course, I know the answer - because creating doubt around sexual crime is rapists' main defence and one of the ways they do it is by insisting everything is framed in legal terms - it confuses people, makes them believe they can interrogate victims and question their feelings, when they wouldn't dream of doing the same thing in other similar situations.

Don't get sucked in.

Your friend was badly hurt by someone. That someone was horrible and manipulative. Your friend deserves sympathy and support, not a discussion about definitions and comparisons.

Opal93 · 31/03/2021 20:25

“But what difference does that make to this OP?” I considered what happened to my friend based on what he said assault. The reason I ask about genders being reversed is because I think most people would definitely consider it assault if the roles were reversed. Like pp said, sexual assault by women is trivialised.

OP posts:
Tossblanket · 31/03/2021 20:31

Of course it's sexual assault.

Look at the definition.

Pumperthepumper · 31/03/2021 20:38

@Opal93

“But what difference does that make to this OP?” I considered what happened to my friend based on what he said assault. The reason I ask about genders being reversed is because I think most people would definitely consider it assault if the roles were reversed. Like pp said, sexual assault by women is trivialised.
So is the point of this thread to get some advice to show your friend? Or is it to have a conversation about the horrible effect toxic masculinity has on society?
SnackSizeRaisin · 31/03/2021 20:50

Hmm not really sure it's assault. You can still say no if someone repeatedly asks you something, and assuming they lived with normal supportive families he could have avoided seeing her.
She didn't force him or threaten him. I guess being young he felt peer pressure just as some teenagers might be persuaded to shoplift, play truant, etc. Saying do you think i'm ugly is not threatening. He could have walked away. I have had men pester for things and said no and dealt with their withdrawal or disappointment. Maybe you feel a bit bad for disappointing them at the time. Regretting a sexual experience or feeling you made a bad decision can happen but you have to take responsibility for your own actions.

Opal93 · 31/03/2021 20:51

“So is the point of this thread to get some advice to show your friend? Or is it to have a conversation about the horrible effect toxic masculinity has on society?” I wouldn’t actually bring this up with my friend unless he wanted to talk about it. It was more because when he first told me the story, I immediately thought sexual assault, and just wanted to see if others would agree ( I don’t want to ask anyone IRL as this is deeply personal and he told me in confidence and I wouldn’t want anyone figuring out who I’m talking about) And I wanted to see if others felt I was right from coming to that conclusion. Because some people don’t consider this assault, but I think many people would think differently if genders were reversed

OP posts:
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