Ringing headteacher for teaching application

[watermelon9w]

Hi,
I want to apply for a teaching job in a local school.
Due to Covid, visits are not allowed so in the advert it says that interested candidates can call the headteacher for a chat and then provides a phone number.

However, it's half term and I find the whole ringing up on the phone and asking questions about the school a bit awkward (as in I don't even know what I would ask), unlike a school visit in which you can comment and ask questions as you walk around.

Do I just ring on Monday, despite it being half-term? And what type of questions would I ask over the phone.
The job advert closes on the 2nd week of half term.

Any tips?
Do I just ring? Or would that be rude?

@user1471505494

If you are in the UK it is now The Easter Holidays. I would have thought a teacher would have known

Not yet - some don't break up til next week

If you can't think of any questions to ask then why ring?

OP I get where you are coming from. I find myself reluctant to phone, not because I don't have the confidence on the phone, but because I don't want to take up their precious time. I have to remind myself that they wouldn't put it if they didn't want you to apply.

Look at the school website, inspection report, twitter etc. first and see if any questions come to mind. Other areas you might want to ask about are what is being done differently to support pupils now they have returned - academically and for their whole wellbeing.

Possibly check the holidays - not all schools broke up on Friday but you know your area better than random mumsnetters. And good luck.

If you feel you have all of the information you need then why do you need to ring? The HT will not want to be bothered by a phone call in the holidays just so they can answer some random qu that you could probably find the answer to in the info pack you have been sent or on the website. If there was genuinely something you need to know then ring, if not, save your questions till the interview.

I had my time wasted by prospective candidates phoning for chats or wanting a look round the school just because they felt it would give them the edge when it came to shortlisting. It didn't. Sometimes we had 30 plus applications to read through. I really didn't have time to give 30 people pre interview chats or tours - they would have all of that on the day of interview. Then, both the school and the candidate could judge if it were the right place for them.

If the advert invites you to call for a chat then that's what I would do. If they didn't want you to then they wouldn't put it.
Study the website and make a list of questions you'd like to ask.
I'm a teacher and yes of course you get a feel for the place on a visit but given that's not an option at this stage a phone call is the next best thing, particularly if it's in the advert.

@Thisgirlcando

It honestly doesn’t influence applications at ours if you contact or not. We have a list of essential and desirable qualities. We go through your application and tick off each or the essential qualities and interview everyone that meets all of them. If there are loads we then go down the desirable list too. If we don’t have someone that has all essential we pick the top few.

We don’t even think about if they’ve visited or contacted school.

Just to add, for the benefit of anyone who might ever apply for a teaching post: only ask questions about which you are genuinely interested and which might inform your application/interview.

As a very experienced, former head, I got a lot of applicants who thought - or had been told - that they must ask questions or they'd look disinterested. Often, they'd ask banal questions or ones which they could have easily found the answer to in the application pack or on the school website.

@RedHelenB

If you can't think of any questions to ask then why ring?

This. Heads know when you're doing it because you think you should.

@VickyEadieofThigh This 100%

I can only assume that training colleges are still telling trainees that they must ask questions, do pre interview visits etc because it is almost always NQTs who so this. My eyes glaze over when I get asked the most utterly pointless and irrelevant questions, clearly from someone who has had it drilled into them that asking questions leaves a good impression. Not when that topics has already been addressed, or when it is totally irrelevant it doesn't, no.

If the school has a decent candidate pack and website, and if candidates have done the leg work and looked online for OFSTED reports etc, then there should be very little extra info needed. If a school has it's pick of candidates they will not want to feel like THEY are the ones being interviewed. Of course, if you are in the enviable position of being a teacher of a shortage subject with several potential jobs to choose from then by all being you can be as picky as you like.

I've been teaching for ages and I've rarely seen a school visit (in secondary anyway!) Like I said below, it just doesn't in any way effect whether you are shortlisted for a post or not.
Questions are super valid at the interview: at the end of the interview they will always ask if you have any and I think it's good to ask. You could ask about SEN provision, extra curricular expectations, If you would be part of teaching the PSHE programme, what professional development opportunities exist. I wouldn't really expect anyone to ring the Headteacher and ask any of it in advance of even being shortlisted for a job though.

I still vote for just applying op, make sure your letter explicitly states how you fit the person specification (use subheadings) and sell your skills amd qualities. If you get shortlisted then you can worry about questions!

I've never taken up the opportunity of an informal chat / visit and always got the teaching interview so I don't think it's something that will be particularly looked at. If you have questions or feel the need to make contact prior to application then email, apologising for bothering them over the Easter holidays (not half term) but stating you are keen to apply. Just because teacher's aren't in school doesn't mean they aren't working and I'm sure the head will be checking their email multiple times a day.

Thank you for all the comments! Seems to be mixed responses about the call

Apologises for getting frustrated last night about the Easter/half-term issue; I don't mind being corrected but when people are purposely being bitchy or passive-aggressive about it then it really grinds my gears.

Also, I don't understand the automatic jump to "should you really be a teacher " some people have said just because I don't have any questions that I can't find online or because I made an error with my terminology i.e. Easter holidays.
It is possible for teachers to make mistakes - we are not perfect beings. If anything, making mistakes and correcting them is perfect for modeling to children that it is okay to make errors.

Anyway - back to the question - I don't think I will ring. I already know two of my friends who will be ringing the head this week about the job and it is definitely half-term here. Half-term started on Friday. So, i'm not sure if the head would want constant phone calls?

I think the only reason I asked this question was because I wasn't originally going to ring and just send my application with details of what I liked about the school, how I fit the spec and what i've seen on the website/Twitter that caught my attention. However, my friends who are ringing said, usually, applicants who ring/visit are favoured when it comes to interviews. Also, my boyfriend is now pushing me to ring the head as "it'll look good." Which is why my mind is totally boggled because my brain doesn't feel a need to ring yet everyone around me thinks I should.

I also hate the concept of being pressured to visit a school - as a supply teacher, I can miss out on a days wage because of these visits and even the after-hours don't help as I may be placed in a school far away from the school i'm applying for. I don't mind visiting schools close by but I often apply for jobs 50 mins - an hour away so visits only seem convienient to those close by.

*definitely Easter-holidays

There are three terms in an academic year. There is a one week break in all three, effectively splitting them in half. Those are half terms.

Your attitude to constructive criticism is deeply concerning - I have been teaching for 27 years and I'm genuinely still learning. You need to develop that kind of thought process if you're going to survive.

To be honest, as a teacher in your shoes, I probably wouldn’t ring if I had nothing specific to ask. I might email and introduce myself to the head, but i might not even do that. Enjoy the Easter holidays and send in your application.

@Riquesh ayyy? I have accepted the Easter/half-term issue in my last paragraph.
What I don't accept is people purposely being bitchy or passive-aggressive to somebody making an error.
In the same way, I could say your comprehension skills concern me that you don't see i'm responding to those who are being passive-aggressive over a mistake I have made, I have thanked most people for their input.

I'm guessing your boyfriend isnt a teacher op. Don't ring. And I agree that people jumping down your throat and suggesting that you shouldn't be teaching because of an error in terminology is ridiculous; take no notice. Welcome to teaching! Good luck in your job applications and dont bother ringing headteachers during holidays (half term, Easter or otherwise 😆) unless you have a burning question. Spend the time writing a top class cover letter instead.

@Ploughingthrough thank you! In the real world, I have more to worry about than if it is Easter or half-term, but just imagine jumping down a child's throat who made an error in the same way some people have on this thread. Teachers are not perfect beings, we do make mistakes.

And, no, boyfriend is not a teacher but he gets all moody with me if I suggest not ringing the headteacher

And I 100% guarantee that if this is a state school, people who call are not at any advantage in gaining an interview. It's literally a case of your qualifications, strength of application and whether you meet the criteria on the person specification.

I've had to tell my non teaching DH many times over the last decade or so that my profession does not operate like his. It's different in so many ways that we just dont talk about it, he now trusts that I know how it works!

Explaining half terms = jumping down someone’s throat. Okay. 🙄🙄

@Ploughingthrough my favourite time was when I was getting stressed about what happens if my references become outdated and my non-teaching boyfriend replies, just ask one of the teaching assistants to write you a reference and you can keep it in a folder for future job interviews. He couldn't fathom that a future job would not accept a teaching assistant reference

I haven't visited the school or had an informal phone chat for any teaching job I've applied for. It's not very common in the schools I've worked in unless you are applying for SLT positions. As it sounds like you've done cracking research online for the school, I think that calling the HT wouldn't really gain you anything. I can see what you mean about showing enthusiasm etc, but I'd just wait until (fingers crossed!) you are at an interview. Remember, if you get a rubbish feeling while you tour the school, you can pull out at any point. Good luck!

Riquesh sure but if you read the thread you will see you are about the 10th person to correct her on this. I think she gets it, on the basis she has acknowledged her mistake already. It's just petty for mnetters to keep harping on about it, when a) her question is something else b) she has already acknowledged that her terminology is incorrect.

Is there a video for new starters on the website? We did one to help with applications as school tours weren’t available.

I would ring. I’ve been involved with interviewing as a Gov and generally I notice that people who’ve rung or been in can do a better job of their application as they understand us better. Good luck.

I suspect the job may go to somebody who doesn't need to access the Mumsnet hive mind to decide whether to pick up the phone or not!