Ringing headteacher for teaching application

[watermelon9w]

Hi,
I want to apply for a teaching job in a local school.
Due to Covid, visits are not allowed so in the advert it says that interested candidates can call the headteacher for a chat and then provides a phone number.

However, it's half term and I find the whole ringing up on the phone and asking questions about the school a bit awkward (as in I don't even know what I would ask), unlike a school visit in which you can comment and ask questions as you walk around.

Do I just ring on Monday, despite it being half-term? And what type of questions would I ask over the phone.
The job advert closes on the 2nd week of half term.

Any tips?
Do I just ring? Or would that be rude?

Jesus, just apply for the job already. Don't ring: it really doesn't make any difference.

How are you going to lead a class if you lack the gumption to make this kind of decision?

I wouldn't be bothered about you referring to half term by the way. I'm not uptight like that. People get nervous in phone calls about jobs and say the wrong phrase, so what?

I don’t know sansa, I have to be honest and say it would put me off a bit.

But I am one person and this is the point - some heads will love being called, others will think it’s a pain!

@Toomanymuslins

I don’t know sansa, I have to be honest and say it would put me off a bit.

But I am one person and this is the point - some heads will love being called, others will think it’s a pain!

People being put off by taking on an NQT and the additional work is nothing new. As the guidance for NQT 'year' to go from 1 year to 2 in 2021, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask if the change has taken affect yet in this school, or even if they accept applications from them, some don't for some jobs. I doubt it would be worded 'what can you do for me', but it's sad if someone asking a reasonable question would put you off.

I'm quite surprised you can't think of questions if you have spent a year as a supply teacher. You must be aware that what is in policies doesn't necessarily reflect what actually happens in school, and that there is a lot that goes on in schools that won't be described in any policies.

So what questions would you suggest nith, as I have no idea either!

sansa, it isn’t the question so much as the intent behind it. As much as an interview is a two way process it is wise to remember that the school are interested in what you can do for them and not vice versa. I’m not trying to be negative there and (for reference to the OP) as you can see there isn’t a ‘one answer’ to these things as HTs are different and schools are different.

You could ask if there are any problems they have at the school and what their number one priority to fix is.

I would actually ask to be sent details about the school. Why is there not an applicant pack? Given that applicants cannot visit, the school should send info out. Like a normal employer.

Therefore ask if they will consider a NQT. They may not. They might. Ask for an application form and details about the school such as school organisation, leadership, ethos etc. Ask for details about the department you would be in. All this should be in a pack in my view.

Look at their web site for their prospectus. What did their last Ofsted say? Read their policies. Read any Governor minutes. Read any curriculum info for your subject/year group.

Leave a message if there’s no answer but at least ring them. Show an interest.

If they encourage visits I would say not only is it suitable for an NQT but they only want an NQT.

So what questions would you suggest nith, as I have no idea either!

I'm not even a teacher, but how about questions around areas for development shown in their last Ofsted report, how supportive the local authority is in relation to SEN, opportunities for professional development, how the marking policy works in practice, take-up of extra curricular activities and opportunities for helping or starting your own, how do they staff 1:1 and small group provision for SEN and how is that working, how do they find current classroom layout arrangements work, involvement with the PTA or equivalent, anything interesting arising out of the governors' meeting minutes, etc etc.

It is NOT half-term. Easter holidays - yes (depending on where you are), but not half-term (which is a holiday that happens halfway through the term). Might be useful to know the school term / holiday structure before enquiring!

Our school in Somerset starts the Easter holidays on Good Friday.

A friend said it was drummed into them the importance of asking for a school visit, phone chat in this instance as to not do so is showing a complete lack of interest in the place you are professing to be wanting to work.

I would try ringing the school and if it is closed, send an email requesting an informal chat. It is also showing inactive and dedication to the role.

@Toomanymuslins

If they encourage visits I would say not only is it suitable for an NQT but they only want an NQT.

What's the thinking behind that? As I posted above I was involved in teacher recruitment for a while and all posts had the opportunity for school visits, I'm sure even when recruiting for a HT candidates visited the school although I think that was after hours.

See all that makes it sound as if you are interviewing them.

questions around areas for development shown in their last Ofsted report

Possibly - but schools are unlikely to want a potential teacher drawing attention to areas of weakness (or development.)

how supportive the local authority is in relation to SEN

Which implies they aren’t supportive. In any case, your job as classroom teacher is to include and accommodate as much as is reasonably possible.

opportunities for professional development

Possibly

how the marking policy works in practice

No, no, no. No school will admit the marking policy is impossible to follow in practice.

take-up of extra curricular activities and opportunities for helping or starting your own

Probably the best question

how do they staff 1:1 and small group provision for SEN and how is that working

That may come across very critically and like I say as if you are interviewing them

how do they find current classroom layout arrangements work

Why would you need to know that

involvement with the PTA or equivalent

Possibly but not strictly relevant to good teaching which is fundamentally what the interview should be about.

anything interesting arising out of the governors' meeting minutes

Why would you presume this would be shared?

I do think you have to be careful as while a couple of questions are fine I would honestly be exhausted if someone fired all those at me and be wondering if I appointed them if this person was just going to be stopping me ALL the time to ask how the governors meetings were and how did I think changing the red to green colour scheme worked ...

flying because logically if you aren’t an NQT you’ll probably be working.

Getting time off for an interview is fair enough but not many schools would be particularly keen on letting you have a day for the interview and a day for a visit.

Which is why I dislike the ‘visit the school’ mentality. It also puts people who may wish to relocate at a disadvantage.

@Toomanymuslins

flying because logically if you aren’t an NQT you’ll probably be working.

Getting time off for an interview is fair enough but not many schools would be particularly keen on letting you have a day for the interview and a day for a visit.

Which is why I dislike the ‘visit the school’ mentality. It also puts people who may wish to relocate at a disadvantage.

I see, I guess then like most things in life different schools do things differently. I know that in the school I was Gov at there was absolutely no coded message in inviting all potential applicants for a school visit and it can't be a view held by all teachers as I know that qualified teachers came for visits

It was a primary school and a lot of posts weren't full time and visits could be at any time so maybe not quite the issue that it would be for full time secondary teachers.

Yes but flying that’s my point really. It then demands that either the teacher has the inconvenience of arranging cover and so on just to visit when to be honest everything could be easily answered on the day.

Visits were all the rage in the 2005-2010 period and I thought they’d died a death!

@watermelon9w

Hi, I want to apply for a teaching job in a local school. Due to Covid, visits are not allowed so in the advert it says that interested candidates can call the headteacher for a chat and then provides a phone number.

However, it's half term and I find the whole ringing up on the phone and asking questions about the school a bit awkward (as in I don't even know what I would ask), unlike a school visit in which you can comment and ask questions as you walk around.

Do I just ring on Monday, despite it being half-term? And what type of questions would I ask over the phone.
The job advert closes on the 2nd week of half term.

Any tips?
Do I just ring? Or would that be rude?

I think first of all you need to learn how the term system works. It’s not half term. It’s Easter holidays. Easter separates two terms.

Is it the main school number provided or a direct dial / Mobile? Primary or Secondary?

(And I know you don't want to discuss it, but as a lot of posters have told you, in many schools referring to the Easter Holidays as "Half Term" will make you look inexperience/ slapdash, people were just trying to make you aware of this so you can avoid the pitfall).

Our school doesn't break up til Thursday

You want to know about the ethos of the school and how it feels? Then your purpose in ringing is to find out whether you and the head teacher are roughly on the same wavelength. Does the conversation flow easily? Does he/she seem to have a clear idea about the ethos of the school and is it one you are comfortable with? Frankly, it doesn't really matter what you ask about, as long as it isn't something you could very easily have answered off the website. Keep it open and friendly and you'll get a feel for what the place is like.

@Longdistance

In any job, you can’t just visit the company to get a feel. You need to look at their website to get a feel. Also, the Head is always fully booked, back to back with appointments. I can’t speak to him on a good day 🤷🏼‍♀️ Just apply and the rest will follow.

Certainly in primary schools a visit before applying is the norm, for any job we have advertised you will often get at least 4 or 5 potential candidates, if not more, coming for a visit, often as small groups, sometimes individually.

Applying for school based jobs is often very different to the Norma, application process in other professions.

@Nith

So what questions would you suggest nith, as I have no idea either!

I'm not even a teacher, but how about questions around areas for development shown in their last Ofsted report, how supportive the local authority is in relation to SEN, opportunities for professional development, how the marking policy works in practice, take-up of extra curricular activities and opportunities for helping or starting your own, how do they staff 1:1 and small group provision for SEN and how is that working, how do they find current classroom layout arrangements work, involvement with the PTA or equivalent, anything interesting arising out of the governors' meeting minutes, etc etc.

I'm not sure they are really questions for a pre application informal chat tbh. They are certainly not the type of questions we get asked by candidates on pre application tours.

An informal chat is just that - informal. Not a list of specific questions. They are more suited to the interview itself.

On a tour it's more about looking round, seeing the classrooms, maybe saying hello to some staff, if in day time then popping heads into classrooms during a lesson.

It is worth calling for an informal chat more to show your interest and to highlight that you've done your research - looked at the website, checked their social media, etc. Maybe to say that you've checked these things and do they have a 'walk round' video type the have for prospective parents (most schools have done them this years for parents due to covid) or to ask one or two (Max I'd say) informal queries.

The half term thing really wouldn't be an issue in my school, or the other schools I've worked at. It's a fairly interchangeable term used by many school staff and school parents in my experience. However, avoid it based in this thread - it obviously does bother some school staff.

@cultkid

Our school doesn't break up til Thursday

The OP has already said that it's the holidays in the area.

My own school doesn't break up until Thursday but I know many around the country have already finished for Raster.

Easter even