Neighbour putting up extension

[BigPaperBag]

Ok, our neighbour has informed us that they are going to be putting up an extension. No problem with that, their house and all that. What really riled me was when he just said ‘and we’ll be putting the scaffolding on your patio so we can rebuild the wall’ (in total it will be there about 6 weeks) Please don’t anyone ask me why it’ll be there so long as I genuinely don’t know, this is just what he said.

Anyway, AIBU to say that he can put scaffolding up but only if he rents my patio space? Do people do this? It’s my first owned home so I have no idea, just asking for opinions really.

Presume you've had the patio done to enjoy your garden? Tell him no.

There isn't a building project in the country which is keeping to schedule. All it needs is one person involved to get ill (or to get a false positive on a test) and the whole site is self-isolating for days, plus the same applies to all the supply chain stuff. It won't be six weeks, and you will have no control at all over it.

Say no. Say a complete no. Not now, not over summer. Say no even with all the neigbourly agreements that your entitled neighbour says they will sign. Your garden will look like shit (from inside your house as you won;t be able to use it) and your new patio will not look like new once they are done.

When we had our extension, our builder suggested we waited until they had done the extension before we put in the driveway/path/patio area. I am glad we did!
We had scaffolding up for 4 months to do our extension, but as a detached house with a reasonable sized plot it was not bothering anyone else. But they see,Ed to keep it up for ages, as always something else it was needed for! Not helped by a delay in getting the roof done, either as roof company were running behind.

In last lockdown building merchants I think closed, I know several people with no plastered walls due to a lack of plaster, no kitchens fitted. Imagine if we get another wave and stricter lockdown - the scaffolding could be there into 2022 worse case scenario if builders not allowed to work!!

No he can't just put scaffolding up on your patio. No to renting. Say it will invalidate your insurance.

Oh this makes me shudder. The word is NO. Please do it properly. If the scaffold appears one day and is on your land - it is effectively trespass. You don't need that hassle.
Also without a proper party wall agreement if your house / foundations / garden get wrecked you'll be the one spending forever going down the legal route - likely at vast cost to YOU!

We’ve recently had scaffolding for a loft conversion. The builders requested multiple times for the scaffolders to come and remove to no avail. In the end they took it down and stored it on one side of the garden so they could continue other works. It was there for 8 months.

In your situation I would say no to the neighbours.

Just want to say that every single issue raised by posters on this thread could have been prevented, minimized or resolved with a party wall award.

It doesn’t matter if he thinks he doesn’t need one, you do, so get one.

Contact a surveyor. Explain what is going on. They can contact your neighbour and deal with him from then on.

Or, for the sake of neighbourly relations, tell your neighbour that you have spoken to your insurers (you had to inform them about his plan for scaffolding on your property) and they insist on a party wall award. Therefore, you would like to use (name of local surveyor) who will be in touch with him shortly.

Some good advice from @DifficultBloodyWoman

Neighbours can access your land for a range of activities without your permission but it doesn't include a new extension.

You do need more information about how close to your land it is and the depth of any foundations.

Make an appointment with Council planning dept to see what they know and pick their brain on what can be done with and without permission.

You can get party wall company that is different to his and he MUST PAY BOTH COMPANIES

Then the two companies get his money and your one sorts out your POV and his one does his

But he must pay both companies not you

You really must get a party wall agreement. What if they dig out on their side and it destabilises your foundation, or changes the water run off so that you flood in heavy rains. Your insurance might be invalidated if you dont require them to follow the law (as well as your mortgage company taking a dim view). And then you will be footing the bill to fix problems created by them

Scaffolding companies are not really connected with building companies, for safety reasons builders can't interfere with them which is why they go up early and come down late. The scaffolders will probably damage your patio, so you need an agreement with THEM that they will make good any damage. I don't think you should charge your neighbours as semis and even detached sometimes have to help each other with access, but you shouldn't be left out of pocket for damages.

As advised by other posters, you need to take qualified legal opinion and look into this very carefully.

Something very similar happened to my cousin by marriage (some years ago) but he had all his ducks in line. My cousin is an accountant and tends to see the world in pounds and pence and be quick to spot a potential business opportunity.

Pushy new neighbour tells Clive (cousin) that he is having an extension built and that some of the scaffolding posts “will be going” in his (Clive’s) garden. Now Clive and his wife are very keen gardeners and have spent much time and money on designing their garden and employing a professional gardener.

He was taken aback by this arrogant attitude from a new bug in the area, but politely asked pushy to produce the plans and show where the “proposed” scaffolding poles were to go. Neighbor produces plans and they discuss the length of the build which was projected at 3 months. Unfortunately the proposed location of the scaffolding coincided with an area where there is a water feature, a seating area and nicely landscaped flower beds.

Clive tells neighbour that he will discuss the matter with his solicitor and get back to him with an estimate for “renting part of his garden” for the build plus other costs. Pushy is open mouthed at having a solicitor involved, and insists its simply a matter of “bunging a few quid” to account for a few holes in the ground. Surely you don’t need all this with a neighbour!

Clive now delivers his classic speech of which this is a summary:-

“Lets leave this neighbour business on one side. Im a business man and you’ve come to me with a business proposal so I mean to handle this is a proper and legal manner. This build is not for my benefit and I intend to protect the interests of myself and my family. As well as the cost of renting part of my land there are other considerations, such as:

This will spoil our use of the garden for the entire summer
It will restrict our privacy
The scaffolding poles may constitute a H&S danger to my grandchildren when they visit
My time and that of my wife are going to be involved in arranging access, liaising with tradespeople, etc
Damage to and restitution of my garden to its former condition
etc

I will need to ensure that your workpeople are a legitimate company, properly qualified to carry out the work with care and skill and fully insured to cover any potential damage to my property. That’s why I will be involving my solicitor, and any other required professional, for whose services you will be asked to pay out of your contingency fund for the build.

As I promised, Ill speak with him and get back to you.”

Clive gets back to pushy after an interval with a proposed estimate costing. However no more is ever heard of the build. Pushy eventually re-submits his plans and switches the extension to the other side of the property. However he meets with a similar response, because Clive has already pre-warned the other neighbour. Subsequently the property is put back on the market.

He can't tell you what he is going to do like this. What if he or the builders damages your patio or worse, your dwelling? You would need to see insurances and all sorts and need to have the patio boarded over to protect it also.

Do not, whatever you do, just allow it as it will potentially nullify your insurance also.

Get a copy of the insurance policy of both scaffolder and builder and get them checked out by a solicitor at your neighbours expense before you allow this. Put these demands in writing to your neighbour first.

@BigPaperBag

What about if I suggest what the patio isn’t available between X date and Y date?

No! Your patio - which cost £6k only 18 months ago - is not available for his use at any time. (Let alone for use supporting damaging scaffolding and building work.) Do not capitulate on this.

He hasn't asked you, he's told you! No. No, no, no, no, no. Put it in writing: Actually, about your plans for my patio? No.

memberofthewedding

I like your cousin. I especially like that he warned the neighbours on the other side as well.

OP, there is a Times article written by Mark Loveday who is a barrister. He sets out the legal position regarding scaffolding and neighbour’s property. If you google you should be able to find it.

Please let us know what you decide/what happens.

Thanks.

@BigPaperBag

Call a surveyor of your own choice on Monday. Explain your situation. Detail what you want. Ask them to represent you. Then hand it over to them to deal with your neighbour. This removes your need to have conflict with your neighbour. In the agreement you can specify what hours you consider acceptable- no weekends or before 8am etc. You can also explain you will not be accommodating scaffolding on your property. The builders can build overhand from their side - it is more expensive but this is not your problem. Yes, a party wall agreement can be done cheaply but you might as well not have one at all. Your surveyor will take photographs of everything before and will continue to monitor during and afterwards. It is your insurance against damage during construction but also afterwards should the work going on at your neighbour’s property cause issues with yours. Such as subsidence. The surveyor can act for both of you, but if you have chosen the surveyor you can have confidence he is not someone found on the cheap also/friend of neighbour posing as one.

I’d also consider your property boundary. If he builds right up to it, what will be the dividing structure? The building or a fence? Get the surveyor to confirm this also.

Take the emotion (and stress) out of it by using the surveyor now.

Good luck!

Sorry that doesn’t work for us. They’d need to ask a lot nicer than that to get access to my patio. Not sure about renting it that seems a big much.

If you don't want to go down the route of getting a party wall agreement, you need something in writing to 1. Agree the dates the scaffolding will be up and 2. If there is any damage to your property, they will be liable to fix it out of their own pocket. Its not sensible to rent the patio or suggest dates it's not available, makes it so messy and unclear. It's awkward but you really do need something in writing.

Please do not forget THEY must pay for all of the legal or party wall not you ... so choose them on reputation and experience not price

We built an extension and paid for both neighbours party wall etc

It was all very friendly BUT professional as the legal team dealt with everything

@Memberofthewedding love CLIVE and especially how he warned the neighbours on other side

We had to put scaffold uprights in the hedge of a field next to our self build. I wrote a polite letter to the farmer asking if this was OK and assured them that any damage would be rectified and any litter etc would be collected and disposed of. In return I offered to check the water supply for his cattle on days it was freezing over night to save him doing it. I have done this faithfully ever since and send him a text every single time so he knows I have done it. This is neighbourly behaviour. He now brings me eggs and I give him plants for his garden and bring his medication from the GP surgery if I am passing.

We didn't put scaffolding up though as it was only single story

Absolutely yanbu. I was hanging washing out one day and saw my neighbour’s builder redirecting their drainpipe into our gutter on an adjoining extension. Luckily I got on with my neighbour and quickly rang her. She had no idea and when she challenged him, he said “But I thought you said you got on with next door!”