Neighbour putting up extension

[BigPaperBag]

Ok, our neighbour has informed us that they are going to be putting up an extension. No problem with that, their house and all that. What really riled me was when he just said ‘and we’ll be putting the scaffolding on your patio so we can rebuild the wall’ (in total it will be there about 6 weeks) Please don’t anyone ask me why it’ll be there so long as I genuinely don’t know, this is just what he said.

Anyway, AIBU to say that he can put scaffolding up but only if he rents my patio space? Do people do this? It’s my first owned home so I have no idea, just asking for opinions really.

@SeasonFinale Those were my thoughts. I’m not just protecting our assets for the here and now it’s for the future, which does obviously benefit us. However, I don’t want to hand on a headache 😂

You need a party wall agreement. Someone down our road didn't get an agreement and it cost them a lot of money to get their neighbours agreement. Neighbour stood firm and got enough to buy a decent 2nd hand car!! That said they now have each other. Get the agreement if they don't don't let them on your land.

@cheeseismydownfall

OP, just to add my experience re. declaring disputes when you sell.

When we bought our house the vendor had ticked the "no disputes to declare box". Once we moved in and got to know the neighbours it transpired that they had actually has disputes with nearly everyone - and I mean proper disputes! One was issue that had to be resolved legally, another was something that ended up with police involvement (the vendors had made a serious - false - allegation about them), one that ended up with the council being involved. And yet they had brazenly brushed all this under the carpet!

We didn't do anything - what could we do? Any kind of legal redress would have been expensive, stressful, and to what end? So we just accepted it.

I'm not advising you to lie (!) but just saying that I'm not sure the dispute question is all that enforceable.

I deal with neighbour disputes and if you tick no disputes and then there is found to be an undeclared one then the previous owner can end up being sued by the new owner. And it's happened. A client sued previous owner and won £63k.....

@NeverForgetYourDreams, that's interesting to hear!

It hasn't really impacted us really because the vendors were basically the problem in all of them (they were clearly pretty difficult people) and we haven't had any issues since we moved in. In fact the neighbours have all been very nice to us because they were so pleased to see the back of the last owners.

On the other hand, one of the disputes related to something we were majorly uhmming and ahhing over when we bought (complicated, but basically relating to the fact there is a covenant relating to a neighbours right to light and access over our land in certain circumstances) because it sounded like something that had the potential to cause a problem at some point. Had we have known that there had been an active dispute over this whole thing it probably would have been enough to put us off.

It's been two years though so probably too late to raise anything, and I'm not sure exactly what our claim would be as it hasn't actually been a problem yet.

When he knocks down the 9 inch wide garden wall, the new wall must be 4.5 inches over to his way, otherwise it's on your land and will cause problems with your future sale.

The wall/side of his new extension will likely have guttering or roof edging that will technically go over the boundry line, check this too.

Glad you're getting PWA.

If I am reading this right, he not only wants to put scaffolding on your patio, he will also want access to your house, so that it can be used? What if you want to go out? Are you supposed to leave your house unsecured, or leave him your keys? If this is the case, it would be a very strong "Hell no!" from me, even without the lack of use of your patio, and invasion of privacy, of builders accessing said scaffolding!

What an entitled arse he is

There may be more issues than just the access here.

If the plans of the new extension have to go through the planning, and any part of it trespasses on your property, then you'd have to object if he hasn't received your permission. He needs to keep anything related to his extension on his own property. Gutters, eaves, the works. Now, you can see where your houses divide. The wall may be on one side or it may be shared. Inspect it and see if it straddled the boundary. If so, look at an imaginary line in the middle. From there he needs to go no further than 'his half' of the wall or he is encroaching on your property.

The council won't be interested in the party wall agreement aspect of any planning, just the planning regulations, but if he is encroaching on your land, you should state in your objection and that you haven't given your permission. They are most interested in planning regulation side of it. So, make sure you lodge planning objections as well; such as it is too imposing or affects your visual amenity or your enjoyment of your own property. If a planning application has gone in, you should receive a notification of this from the planning department in the Council. You can look the application up online. I think if they have applied for building control for permitted development, that application may be online as well.

He needs to do a party wall agreement, even if he is proceeding under permitted development and doesn't need the Council to approve his development. This protects your property, if there is any damage done. I don't think this is a dispute as such. However, it is very easily explained as he is dodging his responsibility by trying to motor on without one. You'd want to put making good of any area that is damaged etc.

No way is anyone entitled to go through your house. If it comes to it, they can hop over the wall. Agreed hours etc. You'd have to look at your insurance cover as well if scaffolding is left up and provides easier access to the top floors of your house.

The trouble in trying to make good later on any damage done to your property is that will have to be declared and this may affect your buyers confidence as well.

Your neighbour needs to act above board, honestly and decently. That is by going through the proper channels. He only pays/paid for his own property. He needs to approach you in a respectful manner for any dealings with the property you pay/paid for.

@memberofthewedding

As advised by other posters, you need to take qualified legal opinion and look into this very carefully.

Something very similar happened to my cousin by marriage (some years ago) but he had all his ducks in line. My cousin is an accountant and tends to see the world in pounds and pence and be quick to spot a potential business opportunity.

Pushy new neighbour tells Clive (cousin) that he is having an extension built and that some of the scaffolding posts “will be going” in his (Clive’s) garden. Now Clive and his wife are very keen gardeners and have spent much time and money on designing their garden and employing a professional gardener.

He was taken aback by this arrogant attitude from a new bug in the area, but politely asked pushy to produce the plans and show where the “proposed” scaffolding poles were to go. Neighbor produces plans and they discuss the length of the build which was projected at 3 months. Unfortunately the proposed location of the scaffolding coincided with an area where there is a water feature, a seating area and nicely landscaped flower beds.

Clive tells neighbour that he will discuss the matter with his solicitor and get back to him with an estimate for “renting part of his garden” for the build plus other costs. Pushy is open mouthed at having a solicitor involved, and insists its simply a matter of “bunging a few quid” to account for a few holes in the ground. Surely you don’t need all this with a neighbour!

Clive now delivers his classic speech of which this is a summary:-

“Lets leave this neighbour business on one side. Im a business man and you’ve come to me with a business proposal so I mean to handle this is a proper and legal manner. This build is not for my benefit and I intend to protect the interests of myself and my family. As well as the cost of renting part of my land there are other considerations, such as:

This will spoil our use of the garden for the entire summer
It will restrict our privacy
The scaffolding poles may constitute a H&S danger to my grandchildren when they visit
My time and that of my wife are going to be involved in arranging access, liaising with tradespeople, etc
Damage to and restitution of my garden to its former condition
etc

I will need to ensure that your workpeople are a legitimate company, properly qualified to carry out the work with care and skill and fully insured to cover any potential damage to my property. That’s why I will be involving my solicitor, and any other required professional, for whose services you will be asked to pay out of your contingency fund for the build.

As I promised, Ill speak with him and get back to you.”

Clive gets back to pushy after an interval with a proposed estimate costing. However no more is ever heard of the build. Pushy eventually re-submits his plans and switches the extension to the other side of the property. However he meets with a similar response, because Clive has already pre-warned the other neighbour. Subsequently the property is put back on the market.

Clive is brilliant!

I LOVE COUSIN CLIVE 🤣😂

I may well just nick Clive’s speech 😆 Maybe Clive will end up a MN legend?!!

I think Clive needs to be pinned at the top of legal, DIY/Property etc, even AIBU. I love the opener, "lets put all this neighbour business on one side" - how many neighbour disputes could be resolved with that one line!

@DishingOutDone

I think Clive needs to be pinned at the top of legal, DIY/Property etc, even AIBU. I love the opener, "lets put all this neighbour business on one side" - how many neighbour disputes could be resolved with that one line!

Agreed.

I'm saving this advice for myself, too, filed under The Cousin Clive Gambit.

Sadly, common neighbourly etiquette seems to have gone out the window. What a difference it would have made had your neighbour kindly asked permission. I have scaffolding up as our house is getting the roof done. I asked my neighbour would it be a problem if workmen needed access to their property to put scaffolding up. They said it was no problem, in the end, the workmen didn't need the access. It is good manners to ask.

Neighbours were getting a disabled bathroom/utility built. They asked if it would be ok for the builders to come into my garden to render the bricks etc. No scaffolding needed. No problem.

Builder found a few gaps/holes in our block built wall in the garden and filled them all in for us free. How nice that was for us!

What a difference it would have made had your neighbour kindly asked permission

A. He didn't - he told her

B. It could damage her new patio

C. He's being 'funny' over the legalities

He's probably also realised he has to play nice until the 5th when planning permission is granted.

One bit of the story I left out (for the sake of brevity) is that Clive first told Pushy neighbour that he would have to discuss the matter with his wife before any decision was made. Pushy then made some sexist remark about "not needing to involve the little woman" and that "we men" could decide this amongst ourselves.

This put up Clive's back and he tersely told neighbour that his wife is joint owner of the property and that she has designed that part of the garden where the intrusive scaffolding poles are proposed to be sited. So he is not doing anything without her agreement.

Being an accountant, Clive first thinks of potential damage to property and land. However his wife raises the other objections - loss of amenity (garden) for the entire summer, possible danger to the grandkids (builders drop things) lack of privacy, and time taken up liaising with tradespeople.

After some discussion they reason that its unfair to seek to actually prevent the build since several houses in the vicinity have similar extensions. However, because his attitude had got their backs up pushy neighbour is going to have to pay at a full commercial rate when it comes to renting their land and making good afterwards. And all the work is going to be subject to a legally binding contract which will cost Pushy ££££.

Therefore both parties will get something out of the transaction.

Its at this point that Clive goes back to pushy with a list of points to be covered and offers to get a costing from his lawyer. This makes it quite clear that the deal is not going to be done "between us men" on a mere handshake.

Still loving Cousin CLIVE 🤣😂

Go Clive!

We keep saying on here "when someone shows you who they are, belive them"

Well CF neighbour has shown he's a rude, ignorant, disrespectful bully.

Expectating him to be decent and not want to upset his neighbour is naive.

I wouldn't trust him as far as I would throw him.
There is no way i would put my home, garden, peace of mind and a potential future house sale in his hands.

Not a chance.

CF will employ his kind AKA CF cowboy builder.

Good reason to insist upon checking out the company to ensure they are properly qualified tradespeople and VAT registered, and not a bunch of people employed on a cash in hand basis because they are cheap.

I’d say to my dh that when your nice car has a dint and a few nice scratches I shall just shrug and say you were pretty clear you didn’t want to protect against this.

I am going to save Cousin Clive’s response to recycle for ALL kinds of CF deflection. CLIVE FOR PM!!!

So do a party wall agreement - which he pays for, although when I did mine a good few years ago I only did a letter stipulating agreement and conditions which we both signed and dated so cost me nothing.
Have it stipulated when the scaffolding is allowed, between what dates and hours of work, when it must be removed, that any damage must be rectified and when they go it's cleaned and pressure washed. Ask for a copy of the building companies indemnity also