Neighbour putting up extension

[BigPaperBag]

Ok, our neighbour has informed us that they are going to be putting up an extension. No problem with that, their house and all that. What really riled me was when he just said ‘and we’ll be putting the scaffolding on your patio so we can rebuild the wall’ (in total it will be there about 6 weeks) Please don’t anyone ask me why it’ll be there so long as I genuinely don’t know, this is just what he said.

Anyway, AIBU to say that he can put scaffolding up but only if he rents my patio space? Do people do this? It’s my first owned home so I have no idea, just asking for opinions really.

The 9inch wall is already there and he’s planning on putting it back as it is all ready. He said something about 4.5 inches of it being ours. Does that sound right?

OP, tell your DH not to worry party wall agreements take weeks not months! I had two sorted out in a fortnight (one for each side).

Good luck today

Right screw it, I’m INSISTING on a party wall survey and agreement. As so many of you have said, he doesn’t care about us so why should we care if he can’t afford it? He should have factored it into his costs. Thanks for all the great advice.

I’m assuming you mean that you both own the 9 inch wall and therefore it’s divided between you both so 4.5 each. As long as the wall follows it’s original footprint it won’t be encroaching?

@piefacedClique Yes, that’s how I understand it. But that’s ASSUMING it all goes to plan. I’ve seen horror stories on here and on the news about neighbour’s encroaching by an inch and when it’s picked up by a survey when the house is sold it’s a nightmare.

@BigPaperBag We are all 100% behind you! You are not being difficult or rocking any boats - you are doing a normal and straightforward thing to protect yourselves & your property. And you can refuse any use of your garden, which I would considering your investment in it and wanting to enjoy it this summer x

Yes I’ve heard similar too! Glad you’ve decided to insist on Party wall survey. Good for you. The way the rebuild the wall I’d be out with a picnic lunch watching them like a hawk 😂😂😂😂

The 9inch wall is already there and he’s planning on putting it back as it is all ready. He said something about 4.5 inches of it being ours. Does that sound right?

No, or at least it is very unlikely.

The actual physical wall itself (ie the actual bricks or stones) will belong to either him or you - not both of you.

If the wall belongs to him then the general presumption is that the boundary will be immediately on the side of the wall furthest away from the garden of the owner who put it up. It is presumed that the builder would take care to build it with its outer face on the limits of his own land.

Although, if he is saying that 4.5 inches of it is yours then he is saying that he is actually trespassing on your property and his wall should be moved 4.5 inches back towards his property.

Thank you so much for this thread OP. We have arsey neighbours who are planning an extension and didn’t realise you didn’t necessarily have to share a wall to need a PWA . Will get on the case today.

@nickymanchester Will a party wall surveyor establish where the boundary is?

Will a party wall surveyor establish where the boundary is?

Not beyond looking at what is in existence on the ground. Unless it is clear from either title deeds or other evidence that the boundary does not follow the wall then the general presumption is that the boundary is at the outside edge of any wall that you build on your own land.

In this particular case, I think it's much more likely that the CF neighbour misunderstands this and doesn't realise that (presuming the wall is his and is on his property) that he actually owns all of it rather than that he has actually built it on 4.5 inches of the OP's property.

But there again, stranger things have happened.

We had a party wall agreement as it was the outer wall of our house next door wanted to build against iyswim? The builders even encroached into our chimney with a supporting beam! Would have been very dangerous for next door as if we hadn't known and lit a fire we could have poisoned them with fumes or burned their house down😳
Luckily we were really vigilant over the whole build and ndn are lovely reasonable people so everything was restored and mended etc but you definitely need the pwa and full access to plans.

Just say no. Put it in writing.

An extension should have planning permission - phone the coucil planning office first to get details and if there is you can record your objections including the need to avoid use of the patio to them upfront.

@nickymanchester But they will do so using the available evidence? That's very useful. It is most usual that fences or walls are built within one boundary or t'other, rather than straddling?

@DoubleTweenQueen

A surveyor will not "rule" or "decide" where a boundary is, they will simply "observe" where the apparent boundary is. This is not in any way a legal ruling.

Fences can be a real nightmare and there is no one fixed rule.

In general, the presumption is that the owner of land will fence to the full extent of their property and that if the fence is supported by upright posts on one side, there is a presumption that it belongs to the owner on that side unless there is evidence to the contrary.

It may well be that there is something on the title deeds (either yours or the neighbouring property)

On some title deeds the map will show a "T" sign on the boundary.
These denote who owns the wall/fence. The owner of the land on which the bar of the T appears is the owner of the wall or fence.

In other cases, people just decide to build the other way round so that the "nice" side is facing them rather than their neighbours so the presumption isn't always true.

In some ex-council properties, typically with eg concrete posts and wire as fences then the boundary does, generally speaking, run down the middle of the concrete posts.

So, there is a general presumption, but that is only in cases where there is nothing to indicate one way or another as to who owns the fence.

UPDATE

Spoke to a person specialising in the PWA who advised everything said here so I text my neighbour saying that I wanted to be issued with a PW notification. He text back with:

No probs, just spoken with architect and said once planning is finished etc we can start with issuing all that is needed. , We will keep you informed.
Thanks.

Seems like he may have changed his tune from last week. I really hope so anyway 🤞🤞

Then when you have that, refuse the scaffolding, etc...

@Justilou1

Then when you have that, refuse the scaffolding, etc...

THIS!

You can check for free at local Planning Dept , to see if he has planning permission and ask to see the plans.

Planning dept is under Local Council.

I would NOT be letting him put scaffold on my property.

If he needs to do so, there will be a business agreement in writing , involving proper insurance (paid by him) and an agreed payment to you, in advance, for the inconvenience.

@BigPaperBag

The 9inch wall is already there and he’s planning on putting it back as it is all ready. He said something about 4.5 inches of it being ours. Does that sound right?

No, it does NOT.

If you come to sell your house, having someone elses property built over the boundary will be a big no no from buyers, their mortgage lenders and solicitors.

We once had a sale fall through because our buyers had done exactly what your neighbour proposes ; and it made their own property unsaleable so they could not proceed with buying ours.

@2bazookas That sounds terrible 😢 So, who checks re the wall? Getting very nervous now.

@BigPaperBag First of all - that's awesome that you have taken the bull by the horns and stipulated what you expect! Also - it sounds as though your neighbour has been educated as to their responsibilities.
All in all - looking far more positive than it did, for a good all-round outcome.

Do also refuse access to your property, particularly the areas you have recently spent money on. They will have to find another way, and if is the only way, you need guarantees and for it to no be over the most valuable time of the year for making use of your amenity - that's really not on.

At least, you have shown your neighbour that you are not willing to be taken advantage of, and you will be respected for it.

Good on you! Your DH owes you a sizeable bunch of x

The: the wall + is there an existing garden wall, or are you talking about the new extension wall? I'm a bit confused.

Sorry - autocorrect being very weird today

With the division between your semis - there will be a distinct line of division of the building? The extension will follow that, and not encroach on your side?