Neighbour putting up extension

[BigPaperBag]

Ok, our neighbour has informed us that they are going to be putting up an extension. No problem with that, their house and all that. What really riled me was when he just said ‘and we’ll be putting the scaffolding on your patio so we can rebuild the wall’ (in total it will be there about 6 weeks) Please don’t anyone ask me why it’ll be there so long as I genuinely don’t know, this is just what he said.

Anyway, AIBU to say that he can put scaffolding up but only if he rents my patio space? Do people do this? It’s my first owned home so I have no idea, just asking for opinions really.

Please call you local council building control. I'm not an expert but from what I've learned having my own extension:

1. Planning permission needed if going back more than 3m from original building. If not, it still has to be signed off by building control
2. Party wall agreement needed if digging foundations up to 3m from your foundations or working on the wall separating your property. He doesn't get to choose not to do it (the agreement itself can be downloaded as template for free) and needs to give you the opportunity to ask for him to pay a surveyor to check no damage to your property. The builder should know this and if he is ignoring it, clearly cannot be trusted.

I also don't think he can require you to give up your patio space. What if you had a shed there?

There’s no way in covid times I’d be happy about this.
Our gardens are precious and more so at this time.

@BigPaperBag

Thanks *@Floralnomad* I really don’t see how I can’t have one. DH is just being so annoying and asking why we need one and I keep explaining that it won’t cost us anything. What made me jittery is when NDN said ‘I heard about a couple who were so difficult that they ended up having to pay half’ (of the joint stuff eg rebuilding walls) Surely we’re not being difficult but asking for a PWA. I’m definitely calling the insurers tomorrow. Luckily we’ve got until 5th April to make object to the planning permission if we can’t get him to agree to this. Don’t really want to go down that route though.

NDN has got you wrapped around his finger! He must be laughing his head off that your husband is such a wuss.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

You must must must insist on a party wall agreement.

He will be allowed to use your patio but will have to put money in an Escrow account in case there is damage.

I allowed my neighbour to do what your neighbour is suggesting. He ruined my garden and killed all my plants then refused to pay to put any of it right. We ended up with his wall as our boundary and a quagmire for one side of our garden. He laughed in my face.

The Party Wall Act is a horrific piece of legislation that does allow this type of destruction but at least if you have an agreement in place it can all be reinstated at their expense.

@billy1966

No OP, If you read my posts, you will read my sympathy.

Thanks, I just wasn’t sure. Think this is stressing me out!

The above post is wrong. The neighbour doesn't have the right to use the patio for an extension build.

OP, if you just say no to everything, then that cuts out all the opportunities for your DH to be a wuss, as there's no negiotiation involved. Just "no" to everything - to the scaffolding, to builders having access through your garden or your house, everything. Everything.

We had an extension. We had agreed with the builders that all scaffolding would be on our land. We had assured our neighbour that would be the case. We both came back one day to find scaffolding on her land. However, she takes no prisoners and got the poles moved ASAP.

My MIL is not as hardcore and her neighbours wrecked her garden and fence building their extension. There was no boundary between the houses for almost two years as they took her fence down, they ran out of money so work went on in fits and starts and random people would appear in her garden at random times. Her dog died midway through- unrelated- but until then she couldn't even let him out for a wee. She also wouldn't let anyone else get involved, before you ask, we are 2.5 hours away and even BIL who lives in the same town (and is a builder) was banned from mentioning it.

Op no one has the right to enter your property - your NDN is trying to bully you into it. The OP above who has a scaffolder husband and everyone else are telling you this . If you don’t want them to have access they have to find another way around the build not you. Speak to the planning dept also - you can object to this if you don’t want them there at all.

@ArcheryAnnie

The above post is wrong. The neighbour doesn't have the right to use the patio for an extension build.

OP, if you just say no to everything, then that cuts out all the opportunities for your DH to be a wuss, as there's no negiotiation involved. Just "no" to everything - to the scaffolding, to builders having access through your garden or your house, everything. Everything.

This. As you and DH find confrontation hard, you are much better off just saying no in the first place. NDN can manage without access to your garden, as he has already admitted. It will end in tears if you let him have access, because he's a bully and a CF, and you two are passive.

Stay calm and stay legally protected lady. Your neighbour had to respect you're simply protecting your own property too, 🌺

PWA is general accepted standard - not having one is unusual.

Don't get steamrollered by your NDN.

That neighbour is a cheeky one OP. Do whatever you need to do... you could end up having a shit summer otherwise

We are just doing an extension and we have a PWA with both sides (terrace). Good job as we’ve demolished an outhouse to rebuild and found that the next door neighbours existing extension (that ours will butt up against) had barely any foundations!!! There was a piece of strip metal holding up a wall and my builders could put their arm in the huge gap under it. Frightening!

My builders luckily spotted it and have reinforced my foundations and poured extra concrete under the neighbours to fix their side too.

PWA’s exist for a reason. They’re easy to get (no solicitor involved), it won’t cost you anything as it’s your neighbour who pays, and it protects everyone.

@Movinghouseatlast

You must must must insist on a party wall agreement.

He will be allowed to use your patio but will have to put money in an Escrow account in case there is damage.

I allowed my neighbour to do what your neighbour is suggesting. He ruined my garden and killed all my plants then refused to pay to put any of it right. We ended up with his wall as our boundary and a quagmire for one side of our garden. He laughed in my face.

The Party Wall Act is a horrific piece of legislation that does allow this type of destruction but at least if you have an agreement in place it can all be reinstated at their expense.

Sorry, but this isn't true, he won't be allowed to use OP's patio without her written permission. Neighbours are allowed access to carry out essential/emergency work on existing buildings under the Neighbouring Land Act 1992 but building a new extension doesn't come under that legislation. IF OP gives him written permission, that's when he employs a surveyor to draw up the PWA agreement.

I haven’t read the entire thread, but we allowed our neighbours to put scaffolding in our garden when they wanted to extend their top floor flat. BUT as we all own the freehold in the property (though garden is ours alone) saying no would be a bit more complex. However, we did veto summer and it was started in late autumn despite it being less convenient for builders and the builders were incredibly agreeable about ensuring that we still had safe access to our garden whilst scaffolding was up. Our neighbours are also v nice and I know would support us if we wanted permission to build an extension etc.

The permission for the scaffolding and the requirement for a party wall notice are entirely separate things.

They could have the PWA and still refuse the scaffolding.

I have agreed to the scaffolding, we don't have a PWA and I'm not convinced they need one to be honest. They have had to apply for planning permission, which surprised me as they are not extending at all, just renovating and turning the integral garage into part of the kitchen.

Our houses, though terraced, are slightly offset, so the bit they are working on is not adjacent to my house.

@LoudestCat14 that is not true. The Party Wall Act does allow you to use neighbours land in order to work on the party wall. It is part of the reason for it!

It is different from the legislation that allows you to maintain property from neighbouring land.

From horrendous experience that left me really quite broken this is the case. If someone wants to build right up to the boundary they can use neighbouring land to do so. The Party Wall Agreement that is drawn up between the two parties is written permission for this to happen, and the surveyor who draws it up sets out what is and isn't allowed. Money should be deposited in an account so that any damage can be rectified.

You’re describing a cordial relationship that you mutually agreed access that they had no automatic entitlement to
In op case, it’s disputed access and she feels out upon and coerced into allowing access
Op husband is quite passive and the NDN exploits this to get outcome he wants

Movinghouseatlast But OP has to agree to the PWA agreement in the first place. She can say no to giving permission and no to the PWA. If she refuses the PWA agreement, it goes into dispute with an independently appointed surveyor – but that's with regards to building right on the boundary, depth of foundations etc. She still doesn't have to give the neighbour permission to erect scaffolding on her land – it can be written into the PWA that she doesn't. I know because we successfully disputed a PWA ourselves.

Movinghouseatlast Plenty of extensions are built up to the boundary without needing to work on the neighbours' side. A good builder will know how to do it. If the foundations really can't be done any other way, they have to serve a Notice of Adjacent Access which allows them access for the foundations, but nothing else.

Sorry, I mean a Notice of Adjacent Excavation.

I'd just say sorry, thats not going to happen - six weeks of his builders tramping through when they want, no chance mate!

Does anybody know what to do if a neighbour ignores your request for a PWA? Ours are at planning application stage but the council said refusing a PWA will not impact on their application as it's a civil matter. The only thing it says online is that we have to get an injunction to stop their work, which seems like it will sour neighbour relations. They've already cut into the party wall to install a staircase and a RSJ without issuing a PWA. We only found out when we sat the original plans. Sorry to jump on the thread but not sure what the next step is..

You have my sympathy OP. I am a semi retired structural engineer who worked predominantly in city centre projects where party walls and lots of them we almost always an issue. In my experience party wall works requires the adjoining owner to be well on board and if not then many times we have had to use other types of temporary works solutions (admittedly for larger scale projects but the principals are the same) to carry out the work from our own site.

The contractors I have worked with are by the nature of the industry very domineering, can do, deadline focussed individuals but by gosh they tiptoe sweetly over to neighbours to ask them very for access to their site. I mean who wouldn’t start a discussion for access to a neighbouring property from that position.

With your neighbour’s very presumptuous attitude and your imminent plans to move anyway so you won’t have to put up with the fallout for very long, I would be inclined to consider just saying no.

@SpikeTheDragon our solicitor told us that the only thing we could do was take out an injunction if they wouldn't get a Party Wall Agreement.

It really is a minefield, and very expensive.