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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Advice needed - incident in Children's Home

63 replies

welshmum3 · 27/03/2021 09:35

This is not an AIBU, I have posted on the SEN legal but reposting here for more traffic and hopefully some sensible advice. This is a difficult post to write. Please bear with me, I will try to keep it concise.
My daughter, 15, ASD diagnosis attends a specialist independent school as a residential student - after a hard won battle with the LA.
We were overjoyed to get her here after two failed placements, (one mainstream and one resource base), and two long periods of non-attendance together with lots of school induced trauma. It was as near to perfect for her as we could have hoped for.
Last December, at the end of her first term there, I received an email from her residential key worker saying that she and one of her male peers (16) had engaged in consensual sexual activity (she touched his penis and he penetrated her vagina with his finger.) Staff initially felt she had fabricated this incident stating in the email that the peer is 1-1 and supervised at all times except when in his room and all students are supervised when together in communal areas. The boy was denying anything happened other than kissing.
It was investigated and I was told on January that investigations were complete and staff practice updated as well as deciding to do 'mediation' between the two students.
She was not on site from December until last week due to Covid. Two days ago, the peer tried to physically attack her. She was removed to another residential house for her own safety. The residences are registered children's homes but we have no social services involvement, her place is funded by education.
Yesterday, both young people involved stated that the incident of sexual activity had happened. My daughter is saying (for whatever reason) that she coerced the boy into it. This apparently is why he is angry with her.
Today, they decided that on Monday, she cannot attend school and will be 'educated' in her room with a TA.
I am told the boy is home with his parents this weekend and they are deciding how they want to proceed - which could involve the police. At this moment we don't know what will happen.
What happened shouldn't have happened. If staff had followed procedure and supervised them, this situation wouldn't have arisen. They were apparently in a communal area, not even in his room. (Bear in mind in December they denied this could have happened because the students were supervised). Clearly they weren't.
I feel school bears some responsibility and accountability here.
Both students are vulnerable, lacking in social skills and knowledge of relationships.
I'm not in any way minimising what's happened or my daughter's part in it. I'm so scared...my mind is just leaping forward to all the 'worst case scenarios'. She'll be asked to leave the school and won't ever get another one, she'll be taken in to care, she'll end up on the sex offenders register and all the ramifications of that for relationships, work opportunities etc in the future.
Realistically, what's likely to happen to her?
And what should I be doing / what questions should I be asking? ( apart from the obvious why did staff fail to provide adequate supervision)

OP posts:
welshmum3 · 27/03/2021 13:55

Thank you to all who have replied. I also feel the staff should bear the responsibility rather than scapegoating my daughter.

Re: the comment about the sex offenders register - this has come from her. Maybe said by staff?
Senior staff have told me that the ball is entirely in the boys court regarding whether police are involved.

Yes, I will contact LADO.
LaBellina- I'm not sure she has coerced the boy. I feel she is probably saying this to reduce his anger towards her. When I asked staff, they have said that she definitely coerced him because that is what both their stories now say.
Jessbow- this happened in the Home, not on the school site. The school and Homes are run by the same company, but her Home is a short distance away from the school site.
@canigooutyet- yes, I will contact the NSPCC.
@sadpapercourtesan - my instinct is also to withdraw her and bring her home. But I gave her a choice and she wanted to stay for the last few days at home.

I will ensure staff are hauled over the coals, whatever the outcome for my daughter. I'm not afraid to be 'that parent'

OP posts:
LaBellina · 27/03/2021 13:59

OP I would definitely take control over this and contact the police myself. It’s veeeery convenient for the staff that your daughter is now saying she coerced him even though you think she’s just trying to minimize the anger that has been directed at her. I’m not saying that she did not coerce him but in your shoes I would want a proper investigation to what happened by outsiders that have no benefit in your daughter taking all the blame upon herself.

Jessbow · 27/03/2021 14:05

The home staff should have safeguarded them BOTH.

Its te home staff that are failing in their duty of care.

i'd suggest, if you can, rather than you and the boys parents on opposite sides and trying to apportion blame ( he did/she did etc etc) That both sets of parents plough on with the ''why did this happen to our children? ''

I personally think this would lead to a better outcome. The whole set up needs to change/take resposibility, NOT the individual children

Troublewaters2021 · 27/03/2021 14:10

This is a very strange situation -
Not the part where a 15 and 16 year Touched each other as SEN or no SEN they have hormones !
It seems the incident happened and the school are trying to get out of it. If he is 1-1 then they know they are at fault.
Also the other parents maybe a bit more high strung and that daughter is being
Pressured in to saying it was all her fault.

Blacktothepink · 27/03/2021 14:17

Registered children’s homes are inspected by ofsted so you should lodge a complaint with them also.

GoWalkabout · 27/03/2021 14:24

Stick to processes. Did they follow their safeguarding procedures after becoming aware? Were social services informed? Did your daughter give her initial account with an appropriate adult present? Is there a chance that there has been any interference that has caused her story to change? Does she have capacity to be questioned and are her answers likely to be reliable? Why did the 1:1 staff supervising him allow this to happen? Ask lots of sensible reasonable questions and make them realise that your daughter can't be scapegoated here. Get answers in writing and contest if you disagree. Sorry it might affect the placement. Personally I think it's disgusting that these days young people are made to feel like criminals for exploring their sexuality. I have known a young male looked after child, 15, be investigated and put on a sexually harmful behaviour course for fingering a slightly younger consenting female in the park. You can be sure this isn't happening to public school kids who are probably doing the same while also high on Ket. No wonder generation sensible are having less sex, they are taught any sexual interest is to be viewed as creepy or illegal.

Hankunamatata · 27/03/2021 14:26

Huge unmumsnet hugs firstly.

You said boy was cross because she had said she forced him. Does this mean that he is saying its not true and that he really likes her and engaged mutually sexual behaviour?

welshmum3 · 27/03/2021 14:39

@Hankunamatata he is angry because she has allegedly forced him to do this against his will. When he tried to attack her on Wednesday, he was calling her a rapist. This is how she now sees herself.

OP posts:
canigooutyet · 27/03/2021 14:51

I would also contact Rape Crisis.

I found this which is the pshe and citizenship stuff. I can understand not wanting to open a random pfd but it should be easy to find

www.bbc.co.uk/schools/pshe_and_citizenship/pdf/rape.pdf

RestingPandaFace · 27/03/2021 14:52

I agree with PP that you need to take control of this by contacting the social services team in the area where the school is, your daughter's social worker if she has one, and also ofsted as the regulating body for the school.

I can't imagine a scenario in which a younger girl could coerce a 16 year old boy to digitally penetrate her, unless his emotional / cognitive development was significantly behind his age, he would understand what he was doing, and legally speaking he is over the age of consent whereas she is under. Although in reality they are both vulnerable, and neither might legally be responsible.

I also think it might be a very good idea to bring your daughter home for a few days, particularly if you think that she is being coerced or influenced to change to story.

The sex offenders register comment in particular would worry me, because it sounds like its unlikely have come from a teenage and I would be concerned that the staff have threatened her with this as a way of getting her to "own up" It certainly is the most convenient outcome for them if this was regarded as coercive behaviour by the younger child.

As PP have said, you need answers to lots of questions, put very factually @GoWalkabout's list is good.

RestingPandaFace · 27/03/2021 14:53

As a follow-up, if he is having 1:1 supervision and with all this going on how the hell did he get close enough to attack her?

Hankunamatata · 27/03/2021 14:56

OP I'd go and get legal advice asap.

Tistheseason17 · 27/03/2021 14:58

He could be trying to minimise his behaviour and gaslight your DD to take the blame.

The school/home cannot say who coerced who as they were not even there.

RestingPandaFace · 27/03/2021 14:58

Sorry @welshmum3 I am really angry on your behalf, but just reread this

Senior staff have told me that the ball is entirely in the boys court regarding whether police are involved.

The ball isn't in the boys court, if you went down that line you could quite legitimately report to police that your vulnerable, underage daughter has been sexually assaulted.

They are trying to scare you, which I strongly suspect means that they are hiding something.

Hankunamatata · 27/03/2021 14:59

It does sound like someone has been talking to the boy - where did he come up with rape?

theteachesofpeaches · 27/03/2021 15:28

I'd want to know who has been talking to your DD to make her think she is a "rapist".

Does she know the legal definition of rape (ie. Involves penetration)? In theory the boy "raped" your DD as he penetrated her and she isn't old enough to consent!

However, no police force would pursue this as they are close in age and it seems your DD was a willing participant.

I do wonder how she was "coercing" him - did she use force, or threats? Or did she just "come on" to him? In which case not coercion.

I'd be seriously concerned about who has been talking to your DD and the other boy, what they've been saying, and whether they understand the communication difficulties that are part of an ASD diagnosis and have taken these into account.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/03/2021 15:36

@Erkrie

Your dd is 15. And it seems the school have failed to protect her. I would contact the police myself.
this - and SS and OFSTED - this is not acceptable
DarkMatterA2Z · 27/03/2021 15:53

Your daughter is not a rapist. She is a potential abuse victim and is being gaslighted.

dontsaveusername · 27/03/2021 15:57

@DarkMatterA2Z

Your daughter is not a rapist. She is a potential abuse victim and is being gaslighted.
FFS These are both vulnerable children who have not committed any criminal acts. The staff are at fault 100% for allowing this situation to occur and not supervising adequately. I am sure both children and their parents are traumatised.
LadyCatStark · 27/03/2021 16:08

The staff are at fault here not either of the young people. And now they’re blowing it out of all proportion to try to protect themselves and it sounds like they’re putting words into both of their mouths.

x2boys · 27/03/2021 16:20

The fact that both of them are in this home means they both have significant needs ,they are both very vulnerable,,whatever the truth of it ,the home let them both down massively,I think they know that and trying to put the blame on your daughter ,I have a severely autistic son ,who has learning disabilities as well ,I would be absolutely furious that this has been allowed to happen.

celiafforcandle · 27/03/2021 16:36

If they had not been vulnerable as most of reading this are not/were not vulnerable, snogging and exploring with hands and fingers would not be thought of earth shattering importance. Either we didn't like it and left it for a few years. Or it was rather nice and we did it again and looked forward to it.
OP, Of course you want her to be safe and secure.

Even as she is, there will be many bumps along her road with which she will cope and develop.

My experience with a sister with many problems was that she was tougher and more resilient than we thought. Also that she understood more than she could explain. Being in a community with others was much better than her being at home, and it looked a bit rough at times.

Rely on the experts, they do have a better average than us.
I hope that she is safe and able to re-join in some way.

Zoinksalot · 27/03/2021 17:14

The fact posters are trying to pin blame on an extremely vulnerable 16 year old boy who's needs are sufficient enough to need constant 1-1 is astounding.

You lot think he is capable of gaslighting and being manipulative to that extent?
Grow up.

They have BOTH been massively failed here but he emotionally feels he has been violated and he is well within his right to feel that way.

This needs to be handled through all appropriate channels and the home has a lot to answer for

welshmum3 · 27/03/2021 17:22

Things keep whirring around in my head. It's just occurred to me now that she might be 'taking responsibility' as a way of protecting staff? Does she think they will keep their jobs if she says "it was me?"
She phoned me earlier this afternoon and it came out that this "digital penetration" occurred 3 times. I though she meant 3 times during this one occasion. She actually meant 3 different occasions. 3 different days. She 'only rubbed his penis' on one occasion. I've been lead to believe this was a one off incident.
She asked if I wanted to know what happened. I said she could tell me if that's what she wanted, but I didn't need to know.
She started telling me how he put his hand up her T-shirt and then licked his finger and touched her nipples. She said "I don't like being touched. I don't even touch my nipples"
"And he gave me a hug, he asked if he could touch my bum. I thought he meant over clothes but he put his hand in and kept moving it until he was near my bumhole. Then I moved away"
I wasn't sure if it was ok for her to be telling me this (in case it's said that I led her to say it), I was writing it down as she was speaking. I told her not to tell me any more for now, and we will find the right person for her to tell it to. I told her to write it down.
Although I then got worried that she would think I didn't know, so messaged her and said if she wants to tell me more later, we'll record it.
I'm not seeing any coersion here on her part. And even more neglect and failure by staff.

OP posts:
welshmum3 · 27/03/2021 17:29

@zoinksalot, they are both vulnerable. She is also supervised 1-1 throughout her waking day.
She has also been violated, but doesn't have the knowledge or emotional maturity to feel it. If she's being made to feel responsible, she's even less likely to feel violated. As far as I know, at no point have any staff told her she is not responsible. One even told her what she did is not sexual assault but is sexual coersion. Surely they should not be blaming and shaming her?
The Home seem to be investigating themselves. There was no social service referral in December after the incident (s) were first reported. I have no idea who is involved now, they are keeping their cards very close to their chest.

OP posts: