School behaviour

[Daisy1245]

Primary school normal or not
Running in corridors instead of being in class
Swearing at teacher
Same children removed from class daily
Fighting
Understaffed since covid
Promised pastoral care that then doesn't happen as staff off
10 percent off a class Sen
One Ta to a class of 10 percent Sen mostly add/ADHD diagnosed
Just wanted to get an idea of how schools are nowadays as seems very different from me going to school.
Any secondary school knowledge also would be appreciated.

ASD sorry not add

Not normal in my dc primary

Why?

10% is only 2-3 children per class though, not a huge amount, especially higher up in primary school when the school have had a chance to know the children and support through the diagnosis pathways if appropriate.

10% SEN normal, the rest not.

10% of children in a class having SEN is about average. SEN refers to educational needs that mean a child needs additional support in order to progress, a child doesn't necessarily have a disability or condition in order to have SEN.

The rest is not normal and sounds like the school has a poor grasp of behaviour management and ineffective leadership.

All of that behaviour is normal if it's rare (swearing at teacher, fighting) but not normal if it's several times a day or lots of children doing it. You will find several children in every school with very high needs for whom that kind of behaviour is frequent.
I'd say 10% SEN is on the low end. My current class is about 20% which is more typical in schools I've worked in.
1 TA per class very normal.
Pastoral care being cancelled because of staff illness very common as sadly school budgets are so stretched, cover has to be found somewhere in school, meaning anyone doing non essential things like pastoral care have to step in.

I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't more children on the Sen register tbh and the 1 TA seems pretty typical.

The rest isn't what I've seen at my son's primary

Sorry I should clarify that things like swearing and running does happen but wasn't a regular thing.

Thank you this is all helpful. I may have to relocate is why I'm asking but not sure about school change.

Normal - no
Common - yes

10 percent SEN is low to be honest, especially in later years.

All the behaviour stuff seems like what they're doing isn't effective so yes, it will be the same children. The vast majority will behave but there are always some who need a different approach.

In a class of 30, in many areas then it would be normal to have 3/4 needing extra behaviour interventions and 6 or so needing educational support. (Sometimes these overlap, sometimes they don't).

It's less and less common to have a full time TA in class now due to funding cuts. Very common to have no extra support, also due to budget cuts. (And/or poor leadership.)

What is your interest in this?

I know at our primary, at least one child in youngest as SEN. I know of two in my oldest class (yr6) there's no running around corridors, swearing etc going on... one teacher per class, one ta per class. Child starts struggling they are taken into recreation/safe room by tescher or ta. Occasionally that child's 'buddy' will have a chat with them. The 'buddy's is whoever the SEN child's considers their friend at the time.

School is all inclusive, however they do not allow disruption of education and are absolutely amazing in my eyes for their pastoral care and educational methods.

Sounds like an understaffed school to me, 10% SEN is pretty normal though.

10% SEN is low. The rest isn't normal.

Understaffed since covid
Promised pastoral care that then doesn't happen as staff off
10 percent off a class Sen
One Ta to a class of 10 percent Sen mostly add/ADHD diagnosed

These are all v common

Behaviour : Seems fairly typical to me, was the same at my primary school (worse, probably ).

SEN: in a class of 32, 3 SEN isn't much at all. 2 or 3 with serious behavioural issues seems common, and then a group with other SEN. One TA per class, yes.

My DD goes to a lovely school but there are kids (invariably boys):who fight, run out of the classroom screaming, throw things (boxes, books etc.) at the teacher. Frequent suspensions at our school for the ones who are the most difficult but they don't improve. It's a good school and the staff don't seem even slightly surprised so I guess it is normal.

We have about 25% SEND. One TA is standard, more in classes with children with significant need, less in others.
Understaffed- yes. This will get worse as funding cuts are still taking effect. Pastoral care will decrease as a result. Schools simply cannot take on every aspect of children’s lives any longer (just look at threads here: schools should teach healthy cooking/ money management/ BSL/ mental health management/ toilet training....)
Fighting and swearing, no not normal. It happens (more so at the moment, we have noticed an uptick in both since returning to the classrooms) but should be being dealt with.

Nope. Not normal. Same children removed from class daily = usually the system is failing in some way as they are not meeting the needs of that child. Fighting is kind of par for the course in the playground with some children I guess but nothing too extreme.

This sounds like a school which is not coping due to whatever reason - poor leadership, lack of funding, inexperienced staff... the list goes on. It’s a situation which I’m sure is not uncommon, and I witnessed similar (but to a lesser degree) on one of my placements. Sometimes I feel like schools can resign themselves to being a school where children get taken out of lessons every day, children have to be restrained, etc. 10% SEN is not abnormal though, as others have said, although the impact that has depends on what SEN it is. I have higher than that % in my class with SEN but it’s dyslexia and dyspraxia. Still, I’ve worked in classes as a TA with 3 or 4 children with ASD.

It’s not “normal”. I am biased because I think my own class are the most lovely, perfect, hard working, kind little humans on the planet, but it still isn’t normal and not a positive situation for staff or children.

Thank you all. If any of you are teachers what would good behaviour management look like.
Children removed go into another year group to work from a book.
Fights - parent informed. Isolation for a day. Same children fight next week so although sounds strict most of these children are the same as the ones removed daily so don't really mind an isolation. What I mean by this is some children prefer to be removed whether that is to advoid work/ atmosphere I couldn't say.

I'm not a teacher, just a parent of primary... unkindness is always followed up in various ways depending on seriousness. At the least a class building exercise based on feelings and kindness. Then one to one mediation with children involved. However physical harm is suspension and safe guarding involved.

No matter what... every child is entitled to a safe, positive learning environment in our primary.

Good behaviour management is such a long term game. It’s about making those children who get removed daily know and believe that you care about them as individuals, not “despite” their behaviour, and that you are rooting for them. You celebrate their successes and you are unfailingly firm and CONSISTENT in your boundaries and consequences. It’s utterly exhausting!!!!!

Consistency and proper strategies that AVOID you having to remove the child every day are crucial. Of course it’s not going to work for every child. Things like giving them half an hour a day to go out into the playground and blow off steam with the PE staff.

I do not say this as someone who is a behaviour management expert, I’m an NQT. I do think behaviour management is one of my strengths, but really I see this practice in my colleagues and aim for it myself.

@year5teacher that's what I've seen in my dc primary school. It works

In my school 10% SEN would be very low. Running round yes but not all the time, fighting same and definitely the same children causing issues every day but hopefully not having to be removed from class, thats not great. 1 TA if you're very very lucky. Swearing yes but again not all the time and usually not at me. I left before covid so can't comment on the rest but my daughters school has been chronically understaffed since September.

That sounds about right at my school.

Most effective behaviour management is proactive and very sutble. A non teacher would probably not notice it while watching a classroom- even things like seating plans, giving a child a brain break at the right time, emotional regulation support...
What you're talking about here are reactive consequences which are important but not really effective at reducing 'bad' behaviour.
It sounds potentially like you've heard stories about a school and are worried, is that the case? Have you actually seen the school for yourself?
Virtual open day or anything?