To be peed off that the Census doesn’t ask about disability?

[RickiTarr]

It asks about “health conditions” but I don’t regard myself as ill, just disabled.

Anyone else?

Look at that ratio. The absolute state of disability awareness on MN.

Look at that ratio. The absolute state of disability awareness on MN. hmm

The nerve of you. We can have plenty of disability awareness and disagree with you.

rickitarr -

"However, in the case of doing that, they’ve made themselves the one who determines whether an individual is disabled. The individual doesn’t get the chance to identify as disabled or not."

The problem is if disability is self defined then it becomes meaningless like gender. For then purposes of service planning disability is not self defined. If it were then anyone could be eligible for PIP, guaranteed interview scheme etc etc

"Which makes an interesting contrast to ethnicity, religion, gender identity and nationality, which we are allowed to self-determine and self-report."

We have seen what a mess it makes when gender is self defined i.e it becomes meaningless. Last time I checked neither ethnicity nor nationality are self defined! Just ask Rachel Dolezal or anyone trying to become a british citizen!

@BungleandGeorge

I wouldn’t have even thought to click the description to check what is included for dyslexia. It’s not a health condition. Which is I think your point that things won’t be recorded due to the poor phrasing of the question. So on an individual level who cares but as the census is used for planning services inaccurate data could have consequences.

I did the paper version, nothing to click on and no explanations of anything really.

I clicked on the guidance and reading it seemed to suggest my dyslexia could be counted though I ticked it for three of us because of our asthma.

It didn't ask me for any futher deatils but there was a follow on question that asked if it impacted on daily life - which I ticked no as asthma is under control with inhailors and I have statergies for the dyslexia and dsypraixia.

So I hope that was right though now I wondering if that was correct.

@jellybellybanana

Look at that ratio. The absolute state of disability awareness on MN. hmm

The nerve of you. We can have plenty of disability awareness and disagree with you.

Oh do go away @jellybellybanana. You’re the one who just told me I probably don’t understand the purpose of the census. So I’ve grasped your angle already, thanks. 😊

The problem with the ratio is the same as the problem as every other disability related discussion on MN. People who aren’t disabled sticking their oar in.

(Admittedly also sometimes disabled people who don’t understand how disability discrimination was made illegal and that the fight is ongoing. Which is easier to sympathise with but still frustrating.)

frogartist

plenty of information available if you make even the most cursory effort to look.

census.gov.uk/help/how-to-answer-questions/paper-questions-help/do-you-have-any-physical-or-mental-health-conditions-or-illnesses-lasting-or-expected-to-last-12-months-or-more

I did the paper version, nothing to click on and no explanations of anything really.

That’s even worse!

@RickiTarr

I did the paper version, nothing to click on and no explanations of anything really.

That’s even worse!

census.gov.uk/help/how-to-answer-questions/paper-questions-help/do-you-have-any-physical-or-mental-health-conditions-or-illnesses-lasting-or-expected-to-last-12-months-or-more

Disability is self defined though, it involves an element of how you feel about your condition. You can’t self define if you don’t meet the criteria but if you meet the criteria you can choose whether to define yourself as disabled or not.

@BungleandGeorge

Disability is self defined though, it involves an element of how you feel about your condition. You can’t self define if you don’t meet the criteria but if you meet the criteria you can choose whether to define yourself as disabled or not.

Which is why the question they asked is a better one than 'Are you disabled?' if it is about service planning

My adult DS filled in his census at his Uni address and I should imagine he ticked that he has no long term health issues or disabilities even though he's had an ASD diagnosis since he was 6. He will have taken that question literally and given a straight answer - he will not have clicked for more info to discover that he should have put his ASD down. He is in fine health and functions perfectly well in society so is not disabled.

@korawick12345

rickitarr -

"However, in the case of doing that, they’ve made themselves the one who determines whether an individual is disabled. The individual doesn’t get the chance to identify as disabled or not."

The problem is if disability is self defined then it becomes meaningless like gender. For then purposes of service planning disability is not self defined. If it were then anyone could be eligible for PIP, guaranteed interview scheme etc etc

"Which makes an interesting contrast to ethnicity, religion, gender identity and nationality, which we are allowed to self-determine and self-report."

We have seen what a mess it makes when gender is self defined i.e it becomes meaningless. Last time I checked neither ethnicity nor nationality are self defined! Just ask Rachel Dolezal or anyone trying to become a british citizen!

I take your point in most cases but not for the Census.

The Census is by its very nature a self-reporting exercise. Nobody is going to ask you for proof of nationality, profession, ethnicity or anything else in your census answers. The same should apply to disability and it should be in there as a specific question.

OTOH, if blue badges, DSA or the Access to Work scheme became based on self ID, I would be first in line to complain.

@BungleandGeorge

Disability is self defined though, it involves an element of how you feel about your condition. You can’t self define if you don’t meet the criteria but if you meet the criteria you can choose whether to define yourself as disabled or not.

If something is self defined then you can't have a criteria because it takes the element of self determination away.

@BungleandGeorge

Disability is self defined though, it involves an element of how you feel about your condition. You can’t self define if you don’t meet the criteria but if you meet the criteria you can choose whether to define yourself as disabled or not.

You’re expressing this all much better than I am @BungleandGeorge

I agree to an extent but I think an additional question of ‘do you consider yourself to be disabled’ would have been useful. I do think it’s a bit odd not to include it on the census when it’s on practically every equal opportunities form I’ve filled out!

If something is self defined then you can't have a criteria because it takes the element of self determination away.

It’s the census. They can put in a gateway question but it’s still all self reported.

@BungleandGeorge

I agree to an extent but I think an additional question of ‘do you consider yourself to be disabled’ would have been useful. I do think it’s a bit odd not to include it on the census when it’s on practically every equal opportunities form I’ve filled out!

Quite.

Ricki - Deliberately giving false information on the census is an offence though so whilst no one will ask you for proof in reality, in theory they could do exactly that.

@BungleandGeorge

I agree to an extent but I think an additional question of ‘do you consider yourself to be disabled’ would have been useful. I do think it’s a bit odd not to include it on the census when it’s on practically every equal opportunities form I’ve filled out!

I would agree with this and this is the same way they have addressed the gender issue. I think what people have responded to in the OP is the insinuation that people with disabilities have been ignored rather than the idea that the question could be tweaked slightly.

@korawick12345

Ricki - Deliberately giving false information on the census is an offence though so whilst no one will ask you for proof in reality, in theory they could do exactly that.

I know. So what’s your objection? We are either self defining on the census, (ethnicity, religion, nationality etc, including disability) or we are going back to the old Victorian way whereby a census taker came to your house looked you all up and down, asked some questions and recorded his assessment.

[quote korawick12345]frogartist

plenty of information available if you make even the most cursory effort to look.

census.gov.uk/help/how-to-answer-questions/paper-questions-help/do-you-have-any-physical-or-mental-health-conditions-or-illnesses-lasting-or-expected-to-last-12-months-or-more[/quote]
Oh dear, no need to be rude. Yes I could have looked it up, but lots of people who fill in the paper version do this because they can't use the internet/don't have any internet connected devices.

Oh do go away @jellybellybanana. You’re the one who just told me I probably don’t understand the purpose of the census. hmm So I’ve grasped your angle already, thanks

I don't think I will actually. I don't think you've grasped anything at all, in fact, neither the purpose of the census, the question itself, or why it is worded as it is.
The question is not "do you feel like you have a disability" because that is not the question they want to answer.

Your very first line on this thread showed your misunderstanding, you thought illness and health condition were the same thing in the question when it is clearly an OR question.

In terms of planning if someone feels disabled by their condition it does have a different implication than if they don’t. You can’t be very specific in a census but if you feel disabled it generally means there is a negative impact on you. You could argue it’s not always the case but generally I think so

My objection is that self defining makes a mockery of the whole thing! The census works because we believe people give information in good faith and that is much easier for factual questions with a clear answer. As soon as you start adding in elements of self determined 'opinion' the data will become much less useful. Just my view and I have no doubt other will disagree. I just don't think the census is the forum for people to have their self defined status validated.