To be peed off that the Census doesn’t ask about disability?

[RickiTarr]

It asks about “health conditions” but I don’t regard myself as ill, just disabled.

Anyone else?

There was a question about long health conditions, disabilities are health conditions!

@Pumpkinstace

Long term physical or mental heath problem is a disability.

I'm autistic, not ill and I have difficulty with forms but it was an easy form.
You are nit picking

The issue isn’t that it was a difficult form. It wasn’t difficult. It just didn’t ask about disability. That’s a big problem IMO.

I have people in my household with autism, dyslexia and if you tried telling them it was “a long term health condition” they wouldn’t be at all happy

That's up to them, but the question had plenty of input from various stakeholders.

I think you may not actually understand what the census is for. It is not to find out everything about everyone. You're not being ignored or overlooked.

The issue isn’t that it was a difficult form. It wasn’t difficult. It just didn’t ask about disability. That’s a big problem IMO

But it did, in the sense it needed to. It's not a problem, as they have captured the data they wanted to catch.

@Pumpkinstace

Long term physical or mental heath problem is a disability.

I'm autistic, not ill and I have difficulty with forms but it was an easy form.
You are nit picking

This!

Had they said 'Are you disabled?' someone would be starting a thread about how they are a double amputee but they don't consider themselves disabled!

The question was perfectly clear and there was guidance if you didn't understand it.

You're misreading it. It's "physical conditon" not "physical health condition".

The "health" in the sentence belongs to "mental health".

Whether autism is a "physical condition" is debatable but luckily there is a link for more information if you aren't sure, and that indeed clarified that they wanted you to include neurodevelopmental conditions.

@ALongHardWinter

Yes,I noticed that and thought it was a bit odd. Another example of disabled people being overlooked,unfortunately. I am disabled but it is as a result of rheumatoid arthritis.

The vote seems to be telling us we are wrong too.

There is something wrong when disabled people aren’t allowed to clearly distinguish their disabilities from long term illnesses, but gender identity is a direct question. In terms of numbers affected, I mean.

Ithink you may not actually understand what the census is for. It is not to find out everything about everyone. You're not being ignored or overlooked.

I love a bit of disagreement by condescension.

Thank you, I understand the purpose of the census very well, which is why I am objecting to their strange decision to deem all disabilities “health conditions”.

Clearly the ONS consider self determination of “gender identity” important to record, so by any logic the distinction between disability and illness should be more carefully delineated.

Not least because the services and legal protections that a disabled person could, would or should avail themselves of are different to those that someone with an 18 month illness (day) might use or seek.

This really is disability rights 101. Basic stuff.

A health condition isn't exactly equivalent to an illness. My DH has a health condition, he was born with a hole in his heart and it was repaired when he was a toddler. He isn't ill at all nowadays but it is a condition, that will go on for over a year, so we recorded it. My son is autistic and that is a neurodevelopmental condition so no he isn't ill but we wrote it down. Many autistic people identify as neurodiverse rather than disabled so they wouldn't have registered themselves as being a "disabled person", but they would probably agree that they have a condition. My granny has cancer and is actively unwell and at her house that was written down too.

You are getting upset at something that didn't happen. People with disabilities were recorded. You may have a point that the question wasn't clear enough but that is separate from the discrimination you are claiming that didn't happen.

I’m disabled and I filled it in just fine as mine is health related. I agree with what you’re saying. Too much time devoted to the woke brigade. Not enough time discussing this with those, living with some form of disability. It is patronising to presume a disabled person is unwell.

Which disabilities that are not mental health or physical conditions do you think they have missed?

Just say none or leave blank, whatever is advised.

Physical or mental condition doesn't mean "ill" though, does it?

Thank you, I understand the purpose of the census very well, which is why I am objecting to their strange decision to deem all disabilities “health conditions”

You may have to take that up with the dictionary, which defines a disability as a physical or mental condition that impairs an individuals ability to engage in certain tasks or actions.

My son is autistic and that is a neurodevelopmental condition so no he isn't ill but we wrote it down. Many autistic people identify as neurodiverse rather than disabled so they wouldn't have registered themselves as being a "disabled person", but they would probably agree that they have a condition.

Yes I always put autism down as a disability, because it’s covered by disability discrimination legislation, would qualify for various things like DSA, and under the social model of disability, it does count as a disability, even though I personally consider it a neurodevelopmental difference. That’s fine, that works. Not having a discrete “disability” category is a problem in my view, however.

My granny has cancer and is actively unwell and at her house that was written down too.

No argument there. That is a long term health condition

You are getting upset at something that didn't happen. People with disabilities were recorded. You may have a point that the question wasn't clear enough but that is separate from the discrimination you are claiming that didn't happen.

No you have completely misunderstood me. I am not upset and I haven’t claimed any discrimination (read back - I haven’t said that at all). I am slightly aghast that they’ve done this.

What I am saying is that illness and disability should be recorded separately, for very good reasons about service provision and policy making.

@Mummyoflittledragon

I’m disabled and I filled it in just fine as mine is health related. I agree with what you’re saying. Too much time devoted to the woke brigade. Not enough time discussing this with those, living with some form of disability. It is patronising to presume a disabled person is unwell.

Perfectly put. Thanks.

@Pumpkinstace

Long term physical or mental heath problem is a disability.

I'm autistic, not ill and I have difficulty with forms but it was an easy form.
You are nit picking

Agree.

I clicked yes on that question for DS and it was easy to give more detail. Not everyone with a disability thinks of themself as disabled.

www.ons.gov.uk/census/censustransformationprogramme/healthandunpaidcarequestiondevelopmentforcensus2021

The rationale is quite interesting.

Thanks @MildredPuppy I was just using one of my four hands to look for that

In addition disabled is becoming a fairly meaningless term as it is increasingly something that people feel they can self define as, much in the same way gender has become meaningless.

You only have to see the number of people on Mumsnet who self diagnose themselves and their children with a whole range of conditions. Though to be honest a lot of these people will have probably marked yes anyway, regardless.

I haven't read all the replies so apologies if this point has already been made, but I imagine the reason the focus was on health conditions / illness rather than people living with and managing a disability without feeling 'ill' is because the census will be used in part to inform public policy on health spending.

TBF the wording did pretty much reflect that of the Equality Act relating to disability, so if you're (generic you) familiar with that you'd realise what the questions were asking.

If they want to use the answers to plan ahead questions about disabilities would have been extremely useful! Also questions about actual housing needs and schooling. We often hear, for example, that the authorities have no idea how many home educated children there are. Well, this was their chance to find out!

I wouldn’t have even thought to click the description to check what is included for dyslexia. It’s not a health condition. Which is I think your point that things won’t be recorded due to the poor phrasing of the question. So on an individual level who cares but as the census is used for planning services inaccurate data could have consequences.

So that’s the nub of it. (See screenshot). Data harmonisation. They want information from different sources to align.

However, in the case of doing that, they’ve made themselves the one who determines whether an individual is disabled. The individual doesn’t get the chance to identify as disabled or not.

Which makes an interesting contrast to ethnicity, religion, gender identity and nationality, which we are allowed to self-determine and self-report.

If you look at the long history of census question development, we have been on a long slow journey away from paternalism, (where the census taker decides your status in a given category such as ethnicity) towards self-determination (where the individual decides).

So the determination of disability status in the Census, as decided by the ONS, is now running counter to that.

Big hmm.

Thanks again @MildredPuppy I’ve bookmarked it for a deep dive this evening.

@BungleandGeorge

I wouldn’t have even thought to click the description to check what is included for dyslexia. It’s not a health condition. Which is I think your point that things won’t be recorded due to the poor phrasing of the question. So on an individual level who cares but as the census is used for planning services inaccurate data could have consequences.

Exactly @BungleandGeorge (Great user name BTW! )

Exactly that.