Broken hearted about my mother

[KoalaLlama]

I’m so heartsick about my mother.

She is, without a doubt, the most defensive person I have ever known. She is incapable of being told even in the mildest way that you disagree with her on anything - she views it instantly as a personal attack, and her solution is to escalate the situation into a fight by saying the most hurtful and wounding thing she possibly can in that moment to ensure that you back down.

She has done this my whole life. I’ve never been allowed to be right about anything, and because i am a natural peacekeeper I always back down, always apologise. I’ve swallowed endless, astonishingly hurtful comments without apology because I know that the alternative is her escalating the situation even further. The only time she has ever apologised to me was when she went so far as to slap my face when I was 15.

She’s just done it to me again on a walk. I’m 33 now - she ought to be able to treat me as an adult. But she can’t. I disagreed with something she said (in the gentlest possible way) and she launched into horrible dramatics, shouting at me, crying, accusing me of having actually said something awful and unforgivable.

I don’t know what to do. She can be so kind when she wants to be. I love her so much. And as long as I tread carefully enough, I can avoid these awful moments. But it sometimes feels like there is a trap around every corner, and I can’t keep avoiding them forever.

I’m so desperately sad about it. I wish I didn’t have to watch every word around her. I wish she loved me enough to not treat me this way. I wish she wasn’t so damaged from her own upbringing that she can’t face the possibility of being wrong, and so goes on the attack instead. I wish I was brave enough to stand up to her.

If it wasn’t for the age, I’d have thought you were my sister. This sounds exactly like my mum, plus add in learned helplessness and overthinking.

The only way I cope now is to stay calm and rational, even when the histrionics start. And I always try to ask her to name the actual issue otherwise we go round and round and it’s everyone else’s fault rather than figuring out what she can do.

And don’t back down. You’re allowed to disagree with her. Her reaction is not a reflection on you. My mother took a long time to get used to us being adults, and struggles even now.

People who were highly criticised as children by their caregivers turn into adults who are both highly critical of others and extremely defensive in the face of criticism.

Because it’s how they’ve been taught to communicate live and they also hate how it makes them feel both at once.

It’s very sad. I believe the TikTok age group refer to it as a generational curse.

So it has absolutely nothing to do with how much she loves you. In a funny kind of way it sort of shows she does love you. She’s just damaged herself from her own upbringing and doesn’t have the insight or tools to overcome it.

There is so much information available now about things like CPTSD and childhood emotional neglect. Which bodes well for a lot of people, but also makes it easy to forget how little knowledge and information there was available to people even ten or fifteen years ago, so really how difficult it would have been for anyone younger than say mid forties to access much information during their formative and parenting years.

She is training/grooming you into accepting this behaviour.

I would tell her her behaviour is unacceptable and you refuse to meet up with her / speak to her until she agrees not to behave like this.

I bet she doesn't behave this way with everyone.

It’s clearly some kind of mental health issue/ trauma from her past. As pp said it probably relates to her upbringing. She sounds extremely insecure. So it’s sad for and really she needs professional help to unpick it all and address it - but I’m guessing that’s not likely to happen!
I’m sure people will pile in to advise you to cut her out of your life, but I don’t think you need to do that. However you do need a calm frank and honest conversation with her about her outbursts and overreactions. Stress how much you love her but that she absolutely must try to stop doing this and maybe seek help to do so.

This could have been my DM! She did not cope well with my being an adult, with ideas all of my own, as well as the ability to debate. She finds it odd that my daughter and I debate (well and in good nature) about many issues and even called my DD my ‘nemesis’! Uh, no, we have different opinions about some things and are able to discuss them as adults. I agree with many of the PP and think that you should try have a frank discussion with her. Let her know how much it hurts you. Would it be easier to get your thoughts down in an email or text?

I’m sure people will pile in to advise you to cut her out of your life, but I don’t think you need to do that. However you do need a calm frank and honest conversation with her about her outbursts and overreactions. Stress how much you love her but that she absolutely must try to stop doing this and maybe seek help to do so.

I can tell you word for word how that will go. Op will say 'mum, you always overreact and make me feel bad'. Her mum will instantly go to the defensive;

'Oh everyone always has a go at me. You have no idea how difficult life is for me, I'm always to blame, no one tries to understand least of all you, I've only ever tried my best and here you are throwing it back in my face, you don't appreciate anything I've done for you, you don't realise how you speak to me and how awful you are' etc.

It will be classic deflection, denial and rebound attack.

From experience, people like this never change. If anything they become worse with age. You can try to talk to your mum op, or write it all down so she can't come back with the inevitable, but ultimately I personally would consider low or no contact for a while. Did me a world of good, especially since I had a huge fear of becoming like this with my own children and letting the cycle continue.

@BrumBoo

I’m sure people will pile in to advise you to cut her out of your life, but I don’t think you need to do that. However you do need a calm frank and honest conversation with her about her outbursts and overreactions. Stress how much you love her but that she absolutely must try to stop doing this and maybe seek help to do so.

I can tell you word for word how that will go. Op will say 'mum, you always overreact and make me feel bad'. Her mum will instantly go to the defensive;

'Oh everyone always has a go at me. You have no idea how difficult life is for me, I'm always to blame, no one tries to understand least of all you, I've only ever tried my best and here you are throwing it back in my face, you don't appreciate anything I've done for you, you don't realise how you speak to me and how awful you are' etc.

It will be classic deflection, denial and rebound attack.

From experience, people like this never change. If anything they become worse with age. You can try to talk to your mum op, or write it all down so she can't come back with the inevitable, but ultimately I personally would consider low or no contact for a while. Did me a world of good, especially since I had a huge fear of becoming like this with my own children and letting the cycle continue.

This! Protect your own mental health OP and perhaps some therapy is needed for you too - partly to help you set up healthy boundaries but also to dig into the damage this kind of behaviour from your mother has done to you - i.e. being a natural peacekeeper, always backing down etc.

Hugely unhealthy dynamic and at 33 you should be able to start separating yourself from it and unravel it.

@BrumBoo has got it right you won’t be able to change her this is who she is.
The only way I coped with my mum was to go grey rock (before I knew that was what it was called). The last 20 years of her life we only discussed fairly superficial things the weather, tv flowers etc. Just keep everything light and breezy

My DM is like this. She is starting to show signs of dementia and DF and I are tiptoeing around it because we know she will go ballistic if we raise it.
I agree with PPs who say she will never change. I've made my peace with that with my DM and have a relationship on my terms, but accepting that I can't criticise her, and have to let some bullshit comments wash over me. Reading about narcissism (whether she is an "official" narcissist or not) and grey rock has helped me a lot.

My mum is like this. Calls me horrible names, sends me shitty emails for even minor challenges. I personally consider it emotional abuse and unlike you I no longer love my mother really, she has killed it for good. So as pp mentioned above, I grey rock her and try to keep it breezy whilst minimizing contact as much as possible. She won’t change.

So sad, OP. And exhausting to be treading on eggshells, and unfair. No real advice or solutions, but commiserations and . Apart from finding ways to cope with her, perhaps some counselling for yourself would be helpful as you have become a pleaser and placatory, and that ultimately is not good for you.

@BrumBoo

I’m sure people will pile in to advise you to cut her out of your life, but I don’t think you need to do that. However you do need a calm frank and honest conversation with her about her outbursts and overreactions. Stress how much you love her but that she absolutely must try to stop doing this and maybe seek help to do so.

I can tell you word for word how that will go. Op will say 'mum, you always overreact and make me feel bad'. Her mum will instantly go to the defensive;

'Oh everyone always has a go at me. You have no idea how difficult life is for me, I'm always to blame, no one tries to understand least of all you, I've only ever tried my best and here you are throwing it back in my face, you don't appreciate anything I've done for you, you don't realise how you speak to me and how awful you are' etc.

It will be classic deflection, denial and rebound attack.

From experience, people like this never change. If anything they become worse with age. You can try to talk to your mum op, or write it all down so she can't come back with the inevitable, but ultimately I personally would consider low or no contact for a while. Did me a world of good, especially since I had a huge fear of becoming like this with my own children and letting the cycle continue.

She has said every one of those things to me before

She and my father are considering moving abroad when my father retires. I would miss them terribly if they did but also secretly feel that it would be such a relief because I wouldn’t be stuck in this exhausting rut.

I feel so disloyal saying these things because when she is good she is so, so good. She can be so fun and kind and generous. But I’m always waiting for the sting in the tail. At any moment she could take something the wrong way and lose it.

Thank you for sharing your experiences - I wouldn’t wish it on others but it helps not to feel alone.

OP, I cried reading your post. I'm recovering from another such argument with my mother yesterday where I lightly disagreed with her and she instantly turned herself into a victim and me into the worst daughter in the world. She constantly comes out with awful, dramatic things like "well, thank you for showing me how much of a failure I've been as a mother", makes the nastiest comments to me, is hurt that I spend more time with my OH than with her, thinks I should be grateful that she was "so liberal" that she allowed me to choose what degree I did, to have a relationship, and to leave home when I was 25.

She's kept me in a state of regression which has left me depressed, no confidence, totally incapable of making decisions for myself. I'm a highly qualified, intelligent adult and yet inside I feel like a child still. I've put up with it for nearly 30 years, last night was the final straw. I cannot change her because nothing I do will ever make her happy. I'm determined to work on myself and get to a point where she can't affect me any more. Hugs to you OP, I hope you find some peace one day.

She has said every one of those things to me before

I'm sorry. Some of us are very aware of 'the script' and it's so tough, mentally exhausting waiting for the next thing you say to begin the next war. My parent was also fun and a laugh, but in reflection they were never a good parent, and that's ultimately what you need.

Have you seen the Stately Homes thread, @KoalaLlama? I've never actually posted on there myself, but the opening post they put at the beginning of each thread (there's many now!) is very useful in itself for recognising what is unacceptable behaviour from parents, and understanding how it's not your fault/how to break free from guilt.

Family is not all Cracked up to what society makes it to be !

What I mean Society makes out what a really Good thing it is !

Yes the Concept idea of it !
And I have no doubt some people have had good childhoods !

But there are others than myself

Who have experienced really Shit Childhoods have been emotionally damaged traumatized in which our even basic needs were unmet etc !

My mother was not maternal thats my birth mother she was useless at looking after us
All of us put in care foster homes and children's homes too.

My adoptive mother was brilliant I regard her as my real mum to be honest
The sad thing is she died young when I was 15 yrs
And my birth mother and my birth father are still alive I am aware
they abandoned us all.

So yes totally understand what its like to have a shit parents experience as I was brought up childrens homes in Midlands !

Let her scream.

'No. You're wrong and throwing a tantrum about it won't change that.'

And if she goes to hit you, call the police on her for assault.

'You hit me. Tough.'

Oops typo mistakes I ment to say their others like myself
Who have had shit childhood experinces/shit birth parents !

I had a relative very much like this and we are no contact now. I couldn't even refer to my own son as my family because "I thought I was your family?!" Sent the wrong Christmas card and she was angry for 4 weeks (yes, 4 weeks). Couldn't bring my son to a wedding as he'd just been born and the wedding was a long drive away and that created a huge drama because she wanted us there (not even her wedding). I could go on. Some lovely moments but the mental times were just too much and we are much happier without her now.

You clearly love her a lot so I don't think you should go NC but I DO think you need to stop avoiding conflict. You are an adult and need to be treated as such.

I would start to disagree/have your say when necessary and if she kicks off simply leave. Walk away. Turn on your heal, pick up your things and GO. I'm sure she won't be happy about it but that's her problem. She's CHOOSING to treat you badly and currently you are CHOOSING to put up with it.

There is no more peaceful protest than to simply not be there to take the abuse.

My DM is like this as well. Maybe not quite as bad, but is totally intolerant of criticism. In her case it’s definitely related to her upbringing and having had a difficult mother herself.

@RougeNoirSquoval

People who were highly criticised as children by their caregivers turn into adults who are both highly critical of others and extremely defensive in the face of criticism.

Because it’s how they’ve been taught to communicate live and they also hate how it makes them feel both at once.

It’s very sad. I believe the TikTok age group refer to it as a generational curse.

So it has absolutely nothing to do with how much she loves you. In a funny kind of way it sort of shows she does love you. She’s just damaged herself from her own upbringing and doesn’t have the insight or tools to overcome it.

There is so much information available now about things like CPTSD and childhood emotional neglect. Which bodes well for a lot of people, but also makes it easy to forget how little knowledge and information there was available to people even ten or fifteen years ago, so really how difficult it would have been for anyone younger than say mid forties to access much information during their formative and parenting years.

Exactly this. My mother otoh never cries, never shows emotion. Never did. But she cannot take criticism in any form and is exactly as Brumboo described.

All you can really do is break the cycle if you have children. You can only change what you acknowledge and your mum won’t acknowledge how she is. So try to find a way to accept how she is and manage your communication and level of contact according to what you can stand... and be very pleased she has a man in her life.

Your mother sounds like a classic Narc
Read up on personality disorders on YouTube internet !

OP, I sympathise hugely. My mum wasn't as bad as some examples on here but it was definitely a feature of her personality and behaviour. I actually think it's not about individual upbringing but something about women of a certain age and generation and how they were brought up collectively as it's not unusual for me and my friends to discuss similarities in our mothers. Not that that helps you specifically.

I concede that my mum's behaviour was less extreme so this may be less helpful for you, but what helped for me was the realisation that in these moments of her histrionics, it was all about her trying to bully me into proving that I loved her/agreed with her/think she's amazing and I stopped agreeing to do that. So I'd calmly (and remaining calm was the challenge) tell her that she was over reacting/twisting my words etc and then just refuse to discuss it any further. I'd change the subject or end the call/visit etc. It was surprisingly effective. She might sulk a bit, but again, I'd simply ignore it.

What was also interesting is that while she did this to all of her children, the others didn't (and mostly still don't) see it in the same way and I realised eventually it was because I bore more of the brunt of it (well, that's not entirely true but my brother, bless his heart, gave into her so quickly that I'm not sure he even realised what was happening). But the result is that often I was seen as the baddie by the whole family for apparently being so mean. There was one lightbulb moment though where she called them to complain about something I'd supposedly not done because I was so mean and to get them to hound me.... only for it to backfire spectacularly when I was able to calmly and succinctly point out how crazy wrong their information was. This was exacerbated as she'd turned it into a crisis, disrupting their work days and making them feel they had to drop everything to deal with this issue (oh, and also BIL!!)

If you can, calmly assert you're not going to go that road, not letting her put words in your mouth and change the subject. But I d concede it is harder to do than to write.

OP, I’m so sorry to hear this. Your post hit home for me as I have the same relationship with my mother. She can be kind, wise and generous one day and a screaming, psychotic and abusive another. What’s helped me is realising it’s not really about me, she’s angry about something else and takes it out on me. I have my own family and have built better boundaries now doing what @letsgoandtango suggests but it still burst. Your description of feeling heartsick sums it up perfectly. I really feel for you and I hope you find a way through that is kind to yourself.

Oh, and the therapist I saw in my mid 20s told me I should look up narcissist mothers which I never bothered to do. But it was after seeing her that I found it a lot easier to take the calm approach. Not entirely, not 100% of the time, but I started learning those tools then and employed them afterwards. The day before she unexpectedly died we had a conversation that started off very badly in the classic, her saying something completely wrong (about my plans), me correcting her, her freaking out etc. And I am so glad I was able to employ my calm no nonsense response because we went on to chat for another 20 minutes about perfectly normal and pleasant things. I often think how traumatic it would have been if we'd had a big fight and that was the last conversation I'd had with her.