AIBU to ask who can own a dog then ?

[Troublewaters2021]

I have been seeing a lot a lot of owners recently on social media as well as people looking at getting one.

The general stance is seems to be only is you are not out the house for long periods / as in work full time.
Have enough money to feed and loom after dog as well as pet insurance / vet fees.
Surely there is very few people who don’t have to work out of the home full time for 10 plus years who also have enough money for a dog ?.

@GreyhoundG1rl

On the 4 hours thing, dogs are strangely adept at telling night from day. It really isn't an issue overnight.

Why?

So basically you're saying it's fine to leave a dog 8/9 hours overnight, but not during the day? So I could leave my dogs on their own while I work night's for 9 hours and that would be perfectly acceptable?

So basically you're saying it's fine to leave a dog 8/9 hours overnight, but not during the day?
Dogs tend to sleep when left alone. Do you expect your dog to sleep 18/19h and miraculously it be awake when it suits you? Are you going to give it 100% attention when you're not sleeping or at work for 9 hours?

If you can train your dog to sleep during the day for 8 hours and you give it attention during the night do it only sleeps for a few hours there and then, then it's fine but not what most people do!

Plenty of people can afford to look after a dog. Plenty of people can also work away from the house all day and make perfectly reasonable arrangements for their dog.

I've worked very part time since we got our dog 6 years ago. I'm currently applying for ft jobs. If I get one, I'll be out from about 8-4 and my dog will go to doggy daycare or I might pay my friend to look after him. I have no problem with dog walkers, but one walk wouldn't be enough company for him for the whole day

@SD1978

Meh, my kept in the Laundry overnight as I'm working, and out in the garden during the day whilst I sleep beasts don't seem to have suffered badly. They are certainly not walked or looked at enough for the general MN collective, but are both happy and well behaved

Why do you even have dogs if you lock them away when you are working and shove them outside when you are asleep and don't walk them?

@dontdisturbmenow

So basically you're saying it's fine to leave a dog 8/9 hours overnight, but not during the day? Dogs tend to sleep when left alone. Do you expect your dog to sleep 18/19h and miraculously it be awake when it suits you? Are you going to give it 100% attention when you're not sleeping or at work for 9 hours?

If you can train your dog to sleep during the day for 8 hours and you give it attention during the night do it only sleeps for a few hours there and then, then it's fine but not what most people do!

Well if you read my first post, that's not what I said happens with mine. But why is it ok to leave a dog alone, downstairs for 8/9 hours at any time? Why is it only acceptable at night? Is that not expecting the dog to fall in with what the humans that chose it want? If you're so interested in the dogs welfare, then surely you should be accepting of the fact that the dog prefers to be a part of the family all the time, not at times chosen to suit the owner and therefore have the dog sleep in the same area as them? Mine are nearly always in the same to as someone, unless they choose not to be. I can't see the defence of it's ok because it's nighttime is a valid reason to leave a dog 8/9 hours alone overnight, while insisting that a dog should not be left alone for more than 4 hours. It's one or the other surely? Either a dog is ok to be left alone for 9 hours or its not.

@Troublewaters2021

I have been seeing a lot a lot of owners recently on social media as well as people looking at getting one.

The general stance is seems to be only is you are not out the house for long periods / as in work full time.
Have enough money to feed and loom after dog as well as pet insurance / vet fees.
Surely there is very few people who don’t have to work out of the home full time for 10 plus years who also have enough money for a dog ?.

Lots of families with young ish kids aren't out of the house all day.

We work from home. I have no intention of returning to office. I have a day off midweek and dog goes to daycare 2 days. There are only 2 days per week I have both dog and work and tbh she's knackered from the rest of the week so just sleeps most of the day. No bother.

When we got our puppy DH worked shifts and I worked part time . Also DS was back from school at 3.30. So between us he was never left alone for a full day .

I don't think it's that unusual that one family member is working part time.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a dog to live in a home where it will have a decent amount of company / interaction and owners who can afford to feed it / insure it / take it to the vets as needed. Too many people consider dog ownership only from the perspective of what they can get out of it and not what's right or fair for the dog. Owning a pet is a privilege not a right.

When DH and I worked full time we didn't have a dog because it wouldn't have been fair on the dog to be left for that length of time. Once he retired, we got a dog because we could be confident it would only be left alone for a few hours max occasionally, e.g. when he had a hospital appointment or whatever.

Some rescues are ridiculous, no question about it (the first one we approached wouldn't rehome to us because we were in a rented house at the time, even though we had written permission from the landlord) but it's a tricky balance to get right to try to prevent a dog being handed back and ending up more stressed because the prospective owners had unrealistic expectations. (The flipside of that is rescues who gloss over quite serious issues just to move the dog on; we were told one of our rescues liked to be "the alpha male" when in fact he turned out to be an insecure fear-reactive boy on whom we spent hundreds on a good behaviourist, calming diffusers etc.)

I also think a lot of rescues are beyond precious about rehoming
I am a SAHP with a lovely home big back garden another great dog and plenty of experience caring for her , she is insured, spayed etc and walked twice a day never alone and goes in holiday with me and the kids

I tried to adopt at least three other young dogs from them but it was one hoop after another so much so I suspect getting a date with Jason Momoa would have been easier

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

If that’s the only reason you don’t want a staffy then I can’t imagine I rescue would give you a dog anyway.

Why should anyone have to have a dog they don't like the look of at all? It's not a test. "you're allowed a dog as long as you prove that you'd be willing to live with ALL types of dogs". I don't find greyhounds or staffies appealing (the only Mumsnet approved dogs). I like small to medium dogs or tall well built ones like dobermanns, rottweilers, standard poodles, weimeraners, retrievers etc.

In fact, pretty much the only breeds i don't like are bull breeds, flat faced breeds or overly thin ones like greyhounds and whippets and i wouldn't want one. Does that mean i shouldn't be able to rescue a dog? If so do you realise how stupid that is? Since when aren't people allowed to have a preference over what kind of dogs they like? If i was turned down by a rescue because i didn't want a staffy, id go buy a dog or rescue a nice mixed breed from abroad where they realise that the perfect home for a dog doesn't actually exist.

Of course you’re allowed to have a preference over what sort of dog you would like. But if I ran a rescue and I ‘matched’ you with a staffy and you said you didn’t want it because you think that they’re ugly (which was essentially what you said, I can’t remember how you phrased it) I wouldn’t be very impressed 🤷🏻‍♀️ You obviously wouldn’t be ‘tested’ to see if you’d live with a breed or individual ‘type’ of dog if it was completely unsuitable but it is a test to some extent.

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam I’ve just seen that my original quote wasn’t you. I didn’t scroll back and I thought from your response that it was. Apologies!

One comment was odd ‘I’d not rehome a staffy with potential problems but I’d rehome a spaniel’ because it’s a cute spaniel doesn’t mean it won’t have issues!

It's not odd. I've owned spaniels on and off for roughly 40 years now. I'm confident with the breed and their specific needs and issues.

I've never owned a staffy or a bulldog type breed and therefore don't want to find myself with what - to my inexperienced eyes - looks like a solidly muscled animal that I might struggle to control, particularly if they have been badly trained or socialised as a young dog. I don't fancy an ex-racing greyhound either. I don't know anything about their needs. These dogs appear to be the main ones in the rescues around us.

That's surely common sense?

DH and I didn't get a dog or dogs because we felt that leaving it/them for 9 hours a day wasn't fair. We've both had experience with dogs in our family homes. This is why we chose cats. They are more independent and just sleep when we're gone.

We were told to get rescue cats we needed to be at home most of the time.
I work pt and there is someone around for most of the day but the cats couldnt give 2 shits if we're here or not. In fact they dont really like a lot of human company and prefer to sit in the garden, or an empty room most of the day (although may join us on the sofa in the evening)

Rescues can be unrealistic but I suspect that is in reaction to potential owners who also can be unrealistic about the animal they are getting

I didn't realise this until I followed the rescue where we got our dog on Facebook. The amount of posts of "Do you have any spaniel puppies available???" is a regular one! "You haven't responded to my email sent yesterday about X dog".

I spoke with a friends parents the other day who said they've been looking for 4 weeks at rescues. There are very few dogs available for rescue in our area as the homes are taking in anything but urgent cases in lockdown. "But we would be perfect owners- we work from home! Anyway our neighbour has had an accidental litter so we might get one of the puppies for cheap..."

• Honeybobbin

We got a Romanian rescue. He's a mongrel who used to be a stray. We did have a home check but they were nowhere near as strict as big rescues round here. I'd highly recommend them. If you're in the Midlands pm me and I can send you a link to the charity we used.*

I think this is totally wrong.
Lots of imported dogs, in fact the vast majority I have worked with have issues. They need help to adjust to a whole other way of life. They need people who are home most of the time, with the time and patience to train and introduce them to new things.

They often have unknown personalities and are at risk of bringing foreign diseases with them (something lots of the rescues skim over), how is it right to rehome them without the most stringent of home testing and being sure the families can cope with what they are potentially getting.

If anything it should be more difficult and more strict to rehome an imported dog. I’ve seen so many fail as people are just not prepared and the rescue back up is often not there.

If you cannot get a dog from a UK rescue it’s usually for good reason.

@EggcellentTaste

Rescues can be unrealistic but I suspect that is in reaction to potential owners who also can be unrealistic about the animal they are getting.

All the time you see people want a dog who:

• doesn't mind being left "for a few hours"
• is playful (but only sometimes when humans feel like playing)
• doesn't bark, except if the house is being burgled
• doesn't dig
• doesn't chew
• likes everyone the owner likes but will be protective to people they don't
• likes children in all their formats
• won't chase the cat
• won't run off
• doesn't need 1+ hr walk a day
• doesn't shed fur
• doesn't use normal canine communication when upset (e.g. growling)

Whilst many dogs fit some of these criteria and the unusual few fit them all, essentially what is being described is not a typical dog. It's this mythical other animal.

Dogs are amazing, but the downside to this is that it leads people to imagine they are magical animals who will happily live according to very strict criteria and not come with their own wants and needs and preferences and instincts and behaviours.

It's an unfair pedestal to put them on. Not least, because if they fail to do so they are often passed on or put down.

This is an excellent post.

I agree that rescue centre criteria is absolutely too extreme, however I take offence to some people saying they wouldn’t want this dog or that dog as a rescue. One person saying Staffies are ‘unattractive’for instance. People shouldn’t be able to just pick the cute dogs that’s simply not fair. All the rescues need a home not just the ‘attractive’ ones.

People shouldn’t be able to just pick the cute dogs that’s simply not fair. All the rescues need a home not just the ‘attractive’ ones.

Well clearly as staffies are so popular, they won't have any problems finding a home. It wouldn't have to be me who rehomes it
They must be attractive to some people or there wouldn't be so many of them. It doesn't mean i personally have to rehome one. Rehoming a dog is a transaction. I get a dog that i like. Dog gets a nice home, not in kennels. I don't get what's so unacceptable about not wanting a certain kind of dog. Would you say the same if someone wanted a big dog, but small dogs were more prevalent - they should have to get a small dog because all the dogs need a home regardless of the kind of dog they actually want?

@gingganggooleywotsit

I agree that rescue centre criteria is absolutely too extreme, however I take offence to some people saying they wouldn’t want this dog or that dog as a rescue. One person saying Staffies are ‘unattractive’for instance. People shouldn’t be able to just pick the cute dogs that’s simply not fair. All the rescues need a home not just the ‘attractive’ ones.

Well I don’t think you should go to a rescue centre and take a dog you dislike or be forced to take the ugliest one or anything...

But... staffies and spaniels should really suit the same owner tbh. Staffies aren’t quite as full on, but similar activity level, fairly intelligent without being so clever they need constant jobs to do, biddable...

I mean a greyhound would be an odd suggestion and for the opposite reason so would a collie... but spaniels and staffies should suit the same people.

My dog is left for around 6 hrs some days when we have to all be out for work
He doesn't mess or trash the house , infact he has access to all of it, he sleeps.
He sleeps when we are here as well, a lot of the time, he obviously gets out for walks and is fed and wormed regularly , taken to the vets for 6 monthly check ups
Loved and spoilt , well trained and very easy going .
We have a small garden and would be a no with a rescue , despite the huge field opposite us and the long river walk 2 mins the other way

*Except only about 20% of owners report that their dog is stressed or upset when left alone... and research on dogs shows more like 80% of dogs are stressed or upset by being left alone.

So it is a big deal for most dogs, it’s just that their owners don’t think it is.*
Did someone survey the dogs ?

We don't have pets because we wouldn't be able to commit to giving them the attention they need and deserve. So as much as the children ask, the answer still remains a firm no.

Question though - what is doggy daycare? Dog walkers I have come across. Kennels obviously. But not doggy daycare?