To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

The USA has never shut down
restaurants and hotels and stores and flights and golf courses have stayed open the whole time

the UK will have herd / vaccine immunity but nowhere to go

by July this will all be a memory

@LemonRoses

To be clear EU countries have exported over 40 million doses. U.K. has not exported any doses.

Johnson is certainly very good at blinding people.

The EU does not “export” doses. That is like claiming credit for trade taking place, or the EU saying that it is “exporting” biscuits. It gets no credit, because all it does it write rules for export.

Saying you export something is like claiming credit for breathing. I am sure if the EU had some real evidence that Britain had blocked exports we would have heard about it

Yanbu
I think they have a point about not exporting vaccine to countries with a higher vaccination rate than them though. I think India have recently said something similar. Or well, they would have more of a point if they could get their finger out of their arse and actually speed up the deployment rate. I believe the US has hundreds of thousands of doses of the AZ vaccine sitting in storage unused (unapproved I think) they need to get that somewhere it is approved and into people's arms as fast as possible. It doesn't really matter were in the world those arms are, this is a global issue and nobody's safe until everybody's safe.

YANBU

And, more importantly, it’s gone a long way to convincing those who didn’t want it, that it might not have been the worst choice ever.

This is the point I am at right now. I was a strong and vocal 'remainer' (never called anyone a racist or bigot who wasn't one...and appreciate not all leave voters are). There are some elements I will miss not being part of the EU BUT right now I am glad we are not part of the bloc. Our government and country have done a lot wrong but the vaccine procurement and roll out is generally rather amazing (a few hiccups but we are definitely getting there) - if the EU had it's way we would be in a much worse situation.

Boris has absolutely pulled a blinder. Absolutely.

Bj has been one of the worse leaders in the world on covid. Thank God he did try to give one of his mates a fat contract for the vaccine delivery though. I can't knock them on vaccines, they've been brilliant. I actually wonder sometimes if it better if we'd been in the EU though and been part of their vaccine programme. We were a big loud voice in the EU and we might have been able to put a rocket up their arse to get it done faster. The EU have been too slow and over cautious on vaccines, likewise the EU medicine regulator. As for how well we've done, we could have done exactly the same in or out of the EU, I believe Malta have a higher vaccination rate than us.

@LoadsOfTrouble

EU citizen here.

The EU has never tried to 'ban' use of the AZ vaccine. Moreover, the EU is not a state, and the country that banned exports of AZ vaccines (Italy) was not the same as the countries that started the (preliminary, now over) suspension of the AZ vaccine (Germany, among others).

There is nothing the UK has done about vaccination that it could not also have done while in the EU. Yes, there would probably have been pressure to distribute some of the doses now available to the UK to smaller EU countries - which in the big scheme of things would not be a bad thing - but the NHS was never under EU control.

The one constant, pre- and post-Brexit, in the UK is the piss-poor quality of debate about the EU and the rampant ignorance that permeates it. I should know, I lived in the UK for 15 years; left late 2016.

Imagine for a moment that the situation were reversed, with the UK short of vaccines and the EU not. Compared to the screaming and shouting Brexiters would be doing then, the EU is fairly low-key.

Here in Belgium, infections are up but deaths are still down. Vaccines may be few, but they've been targeted at the right people. Of course I wish there were more vaccines and less vaccine hesitancy here. But the way UK retainers are using the vaccine rollout problems in the EU to reconcile themselves to Brexit is, frankly, a bit pathetic.

^ this

I believe the US has hundreds of thousands of doses of the AZ vaccine sitting in storage unused (unapproved I think)

They've announced a lot of it is going to Canada and Mexico. Good decision.

Indeed. this is nothing to do with Brexit and there are no real threats to ban exports, just a comment that reciprocity is important.

I am sure if the EU had some real evidence that Britain had blocked exports we would have heard about it

Mmmn you’d imagine so, wouldn’t you? Have you looked at the guidance? There is a list of medicines that cannot be exported from the UK or hoarded which was updated 22 December 2020. Not vaccines but other life saving drugs.

No. The EU is not low key on this. Deciding to activate the NI Protocol without telling Ireland or Britain is not low key. It was downhill from there since Britain then had a really good idea of what the EU thought the bottom line was.

That was a huge mistake which has had VDL on the back foot ever since, and an “aha!” moment for Britain. We’d be wise to remember that for a long time.

Belgium has used 500k AZ doses to date and asked if they could use any spares if other countries didn't want them. The other million have been Pfizer. I've heard no,dissing of AZ, just dismay that the progress is so slow. We don't have NHS here so there is no central DB. They can only work by age, health care providers, people knowingly treated for Comorbities.

I’m pro EU and believe in the future things will happen where there is a negative/s for leaving the EU.

But at the moment leaving is a huge POSITIVE with regards to the vaccine.

They are acting like utter loons!

there are no real threats to ban exports, just a comment that reciprocity is important.

It's spin. They're spinning that they've been too decent, too keen to share unlike cutthroat UK and US. Yet Australia is asking them to hand over their paid-for AZ vaccines which were seized by Italy and put in to the EU pot so they can donate them to Papua New Guinea who are currently being hit really badly - and they haven't even replied.

Honestly, I think in terms of our vaccine program, we are world leading, for the size of our population, the preparation and the speed it’s occured. The eu has been a political mess. I also thought that brexit was a mistake but honestly I’m not so sure now.

No one is fooled, not even the people who write the spin. It is just desperate

As for how well we've done, we could have done exactly the same in or out of the EU

I’d be very very surprised if this was true. It’s been a political mess.

You mean what the British press is telling you about the EU?
This isn't about the EU vs Britain, it's about a contract they have with a private company that is unfulfilled. And the EU didn't pause the AZ vaccination, they have always endorsed it. This doesn't vindicate Brexit, still a catastrophe for us.

Hasn’t the Uk ordered something like 400m vaccines? I do hope that once all adults in the uk are vaccinated, any “extras” will go to countries who need it. Surely we can’t sit on millions of vaccines?

I'm very pro EU, fiercely opposed to leaving, for context. I'm glad we are doing our own thing with the vaccine, though.
However: I think they were right to halt the use of the Oxford vaccine if there were any doubts at all about safety, until those doubts could be proven either way- they have been, and now the Oxford vaccine is back in use pretty much everywhere.

@LizzieSiddal - yes Britain is then going divert doses to other countries and not take formal delivery.

Huge positives. Britain has done a great job when it matters, with lots of future proofing. It’s going to get better (or we have the means to do that).

Agree OP. It seems the penny is dropping (to repurpose a phrase).

@LizzieSidal: Boris pledged most of our surplus vaccines to lower income countries at the G7 www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56117120

I do hope or excess vaccines are gifted to the developing world rather than the EU.

Similarly I was a strong and vocal remainer and I continue to believe we would have been better off in an economic union but this has been an eye opener for me with respect to the political behaviour of the EU and the argument for its cohesiveness.

I wouldn’t say I have become a Brexiteer but I am several degrees less convinced of the benefits of being part of the EU politically as a result of this.