Catcalling is unacceptable/ harassment right?

[Fvje]

I feel like I've slipped into a parallel universe.

On our local FB page today a post about a woman being subjected to catcalls from 2 men in a van attracted untold responses saying how this was no big deal, she should be flattered, to stop being a snowflake etc. Men and women of various ages.

I couldn't believe what I was reading. Do they think this is fine if it was their daughter it happens to? (When I was 12 a man yelled 'let me have a go on those big tits' at me from a car. There was no one else around. I was wearing school uniform, I looked 12. It made me feel ashamed of my body for years). Why would you think it's fine?

Are these people so ignorant they think it's fine? Do they have so little insight? Or am I out of step somehow?

It is unacceptable, IMO. How is it flattering to have someone shout at you? Bleurgh, fuck off.

Do your neighbours live in the 1970s?? That's when it was vaguely acceptable.

It is harassment. It's never a compliment. People simpering saying it's flattery need some serious work on either their self esteem or are literally lying about why they do it.

I hate this lie. Of course it's intended to intimidate. If you wanted to impress someone, to compliment them you wouldn't be hollering out of a moving vehicle. It's solely an aggressive act. That's why these people are always laughing afterwards. They are getting off on the feeling that they are in control etc.

It's so engrained that people can't even see it for what it is. Of course it's not acceptable. When it's happened to me it had usually made me feel uneasy. It isn't flattering. Why would it be ok to make someone feel uneasy, uncomfortable or even scared? I'm sure that's the more likely outcome than feeling flattered.

I tell you what OP, recent events have really brought the knuckle draggers out of the closet and they aren't all men by any manner of means. I too kinda thought we'd just agreed this kind of shit was harassment, degrading, unwelcome and part of the spectrum of behaviour that leads to women being raped and murdered, but it seems that 50% of the population didn't get the memo. It's shocking.

We've all been socialised into thinking it's 'no big deal', well times change and thank god people are realising it's harassment and should be unacceptable.

I was catcalled constantly in my youth and I fucking hated it. I would love for younger generations to not have to go through that.

It is harassment but I have had men basically tell me I should be grateful

It’s grim.

A work colleague started the 'NAMALT and it's all being blown out of proportion' conversation with me recently and I was honestly baffled as to why he thought I would agree with his position. He's a middle aged man significantly taller than even most men. Total lack of empathy. I'm sure he wouldn't see the issue with catcalling but thinks of himself as a good man. I'm not saying he's a bad man. Just a bit of a dick.

I see it as harassment, when I’m out running by myself and men go by in vans and do this it makes me feel very unsettled

I don’t know who is worse - the cat callers or the people who justify cat calling.

It’s sexual harassment that is designed to humiliate.

OP is correct.

It's harassment on grounds of sex and should be made a crime along with all the other protected characteristics.

Yep, it's abusive. Perpetrated by men who think their approval is somehow desirable. Wankers.

It’s not ok. It isn’t complimentary. It is frightening.

It should be illegal.

I think it's harrassment. There have been times I've felt quite intimidated, as well as embarrassed if there have been other people around.

It's not acceptable at all and more about power and humiliation than a compliment

(Not sure if this needs a trigger warning) When I lived in London two men called out a car to me 'nice arse'. My arse was in fact not on display. When I ignored him he shouted again. When I ignored the second call, his friend yelled that I was an ugly cunt anyway and they knew where I lived and were going to come and rape me in the ass.

I was not flattered.

Flattery might be a man you were chatting to in the queue in a coffee shop saying 'that's a nice coat, by the way' or something equally non-threatening.

I've also had men call out of cars and waggle their tongue between two fingers.

And one man follow me home calling to me to give him my number (I said I wasn't interested but he kept on at it. He finally desisted and apologised after I said I was married, as if somehow it was only okay for me to reject him because I was some other man's property).

The whole thing is grim and very rarely an isolated whistle

It's harassment, it's uninvited and if it's so 'flattering' why do it from a passing vehicle where the option to respond in any way is not there?
Even if you wanted to respond positively because you felt flattered, you can't can you?
But more tellingly, you can't respond negatively either, because they've gone.
It's more worrying that people think this is ok and that the person's feelings who wants to shout something out of a moving vehicle are far more important than the person on the recieving end.
It's so ingrained that women seek mens approval for their physical attributes, that when they don't, and when they rebuff any unsolicited approval, it's seen as offensive to the man.

DH was communicating with some of his male friends this week. One of his mates came out with the #NAMALT, another the sent the perfect analogy which he seemed to understand. If you were given a packet of matlesers and told that one of them was chocolate covered shit, how many would you try?
Seems a good one to me, which I will use if any males try the I am not like that.

I think what’s disturbing is that it’s often to teenage girls; when I was a teenager it used to happen where I’d get beeped at with my friends or shouted to. It was not flattering.
In my early 20s I lived near a house having a lot of work done and the builders would call out good morning, I’d say it back and there would be a bit of flirty back and forth between us because we’d built a rapport. It was actually a bit of a boost for me back then. They would say hello to another girl on my road but she ignored them and there would be no more to it as they got her signals that she didn’t want their attention.

Yeah but saying 'good morning' isn't catcalling @user1493413286

I agree with you op and had a similar experience to you. I was subjected to a sustained and long period of cat calling when I was 12/13 from builders opposite our house. My life was a misery and I had to walk the long way to school to avoid them. That was over 40 years ago now, but I remember the horror of it very vividly to this day.

Every time a thread is started on mn about this you will get a handful of women who say that they find it flattering and it's just a bit of fun. I think they are deluded.

Totally agree OP. This happened to me most between the ages of 12 and19, it’s gross. I think the worst was a much older guy who physically stopped me in the street and then, blocking my way, said “very nice” whilst looking directly at my chest. Do these idiots think I should have thanked him?

Totally unacceptable!

Some people have very weird views though. Not that long ago a woman in her late 60s approached my 30 year old niece to tell her the 70 year old man next to her in church had told her he couldn’t stop thinking of doing “naughty” things to my niece and that he’d have to find a priest for confession quick due to all the naughty thing she was “making” him think. DN had never spoken to this man in her life. The lady took great offence when DN expressed her disgust and suggested she should be flattered and a bit nicer to the gentleman . Sick creep. He’s got a very bad history with social services and police and is banned from seeing his own kids. 44 year age gap between him and his ex wife .