To keep framing foreign travel as a holiday?

[stopgap]

I haven’t seen my parents in 14 months, as they’re in the UK and I’m in the US. I know it’s only semantics but I’m truly tired of UK politicians referring to foreign travel only in the context of a jolly. There must be thousands upon thousands of people in my position, desperate to see family, desperate for grandparents to see their grandchildren, and I resent the situation being presented from one perspective only.

@PandaFluff and how much of the market do you think those people make? Do you know how much it costs to put a plane in the sky? Do you think it would be enough to sustain an airline?

I know lots of people with family abroad and most will go away to see their family regardless. Just ignore the politicians and follow the quarantine rules etc. There is so much Covid judgment etc, best to ignore. Of course seeing family is no less worthy than eating out to help restaurants etc My close friend works here and her daughter (8) is with her mum in Germany - she has been over several times during the pandemic. The pandemic has brought out the worse in the media and many rules are arbitrary anyway.

@changingnames786

I'm a bit fed up of the sanctimonious attitude against holidays from those who want to visit family, "trivial" travel such as holidays keeps afloat a billion pound industry which then enables affordable foreign travel for all, family visits included.

Do you think airlines will be able to survive if they are only serving those who have more "necessary" reasons to travel?

I think you misunderstood the moan. There is no "sanctimonious attitude" towards holidays from the people who travel to see family. And no. No one expects airlines to survive just from us

I agree. It might help if they gave everyone a plan as if to say we are in lockdown right now but it will end on whichever date, for a period of a few months and then we will have another lockdown. They aren’t able to tell us that because the covid numbers are unpredictable. If they did a few shorter lockdowns or just did one big one at the beginning we wouldn’t be so upset. It’s the longest one now and I feel that the government have handled it terribly, they should have some kind of emergency plan established for when a new pandemic or killer virus emerges. They know that other viruses exist and might emerge at some point in life. Look they can’t lock us down forever.... in the end either the lockdowns worked or they didn’t and we will soon find out if all of our hard work payed off or not. I hope it has and I hope that the vaccines will provide a larger amount of protection for the vulnerable. Im having my second dose tomorrow 🙋🏻‍♀️

@Zig4zag

Plenty people in the UK have not seen the parents for over a year. I am sick to death of people who think because their family is abroad they should get special discompensation. Essential travel means essential travel whether you are in China, USA, Spain, Inverness or Cornwall.

Nobody's asking for special treatment. Just an acknowledgement that not being able to see family is NOT on the same level as not being able to go abroad purely for leisure. Also in the UK the end will be in sight soon. While foreign travel is dependent on restrictions of several other countries. As the comments here have proven the anti-immigrant sentiment is high

All those saying it’s ‘out fault’ for living in a different country to some or all of our family - get a grip.
I moved to the U.K. as an 18-year old in 2001. Forgive me for not having the foresight as an 18 year old to consider a pandemic in my life planning!!

@sirfredfredgeorge of course it isn’t racist!! We’re in the middle of a global pandemic, so stopping foreign travel is hardly racist FFS, but dress it up how you like. I’m sure if Boris opened up foreign travel again and it was a free for all, this would be a whole different thread!! And just because I’m not in favour of everyone and their granny being able to hop on an aeroplane and travel the globe, due to being in a global pandemic, in a racist?! Give over!!

I haven’t seen my sister for nearly 3 years, so before the pandemic began but definitely unable to because of it. I haven’t seen my my name properly for over a year. She’s in locked up in a care home with Alzheimer’s so if we’re having a race to the bottom, let’s go!

And also: no I absolutely don’t expect to be given special treatment / permission to fly before others. Of course not.

OP I hear you- I’m also fed up about all travel being framed as ‘summer holidays on the beach’. Wanting to see family (whether in the U.K. or abroad) who we haven’t seen for a year or more, isn’t the same as wanting a jolly to the beach (whether that’s in Cornwall or Costa del something).

changingnames786 that's a strange argument completely separate to whether travel for specific purposes should be allowed legally. Travel for specific purposes can be legal without business bring forced to facilitate it at a loss! The two things aren't linked. Travel is currently allowed for work, and its up to airlines whether they run the flights - they don't have to. There's no reason people able to meet criteria to travel to visit close family wouldn't take the flights running for business travel.

Hmmmmm I think YABU, sorry.

I also live in a different country than my surviving parent. I haven't seen him for over a year now either. But yes, flying to visit him is a holiday. It's non essential. I will be going for a fun trip, not to provide personal care for him or even bring him his shopping. So, I don't see a vast amount of difference between a holiday and a visit to see family. Many years in the past our "big holiday" has been a trip to see my dad.

@SchrodingersImmigrant my moan wasn't directed at OP or any specific poster here, but there has been a huge outpouring of sanctimonious attitudes from people blasting those who "just" want to go on holiday on MN and beyond, but for international travel to survive those holidays that people are looking down their noses on are required for people to be able to visit their family. So rather than trying to separate leisure, work, family etc (which is what the OP is doing) we do need to look at international travel as a whole, it doesn't matter what people require it for because it won't survive without the less "necessary" travel, it's all necessary for the industry.

It depends .

I think in a situation where people have relatives in another country who are very elderly or for another reason terminally ill and they may not still be here in 6 months time , then subject to quarantine and Covid tests then people should be able to travel to see them .

The same as you are allowed end of life visits in care homes and hospitals .

I'm now wanting more holiday from work to visit parents.

I'm thinking we should get say 10 days a year parental visitation (As it's not actually a holiday)
Who is with me???
Sign my petition at click here

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme I don't understand what you're saying. I'm not saying businesses will be forced to operate at a loss, because they will cancel flights if they can't make a profit, they will go bust if travel is limited for too long. I'm saying, that the travel industry as a whole hugely relies on those who are travelling for leisure, so rather than trying to pick out one element of travel as being more virtuous than another and getting irritated at the conflation between the two, accept that travel for leisure is necessary too.

It is non essential - but then to be fair so are a lot of the reasons people give for travel that are allowed - like playing in a football match for example.

@Zig4zag

I'm now wanting more holiday from work to visit parents. I'm thinking we should get say 10 days a year parental visitation (As it's not actually a holiday) Who is with me??? Sign my petition at click here

Would more likely end up being renamed a "time off entitlement" than "holiday entitlement". Tbh it should be. Not everyone takes holidays at work to have holidays. Some take it for extra childcare, some to help with bereavement, some to move homes etc. Might be more accurate. Unless taking time for moving house is considered actual holidays too since it isn't work.

We haven’t seen my parents or in laws (or any other family) since August as in different parts of the UK, similar to lots of people.
I think the emphasis on holidays is partly to advise people against spending on accommodation etc they won’t be able to use which is less of an issue for visiting family. Politicians have actually said very little about seeing family in other parts of the uk, all the talk is about pubs etc opening or having 6 people in a garden. I’m still not quite sure when we might be able to see our parents within the rules on the roadmap.

I have some sympathy with those who wish to go abroad to see family but those of us who have followed rules (so not my neighbours for whom its been party, party, party (different thread perhaps)), we haven't seen our UK families either.

My parents have had a 50th wedding anniversary, there's been a 50th birthday and 70th birthday - all missed but we've sucked it up for the greater good. It's just the way it has to be at the moment, otherwise we might not have 51st and 71st birthdays to celebrate.

I probably find it more annoying that the media keeps banging on about foreign holidays - how tone deaf can they be? So many people have lost jobs, have taken roles that pay less than their outgoings, are on furlough, can't open their small businesses. Talking about summer holidays that even less people than usual can afford is immensely insensitive but perhaps indicative of how out of touch the media is.

And then this week the aviation industry was saying the Government should pay for all the documentation/testing that travellers would need in order to support the aviation industry - which really means that they want those of us who can't afford a holiday (because the Government's money isn't theirs, it comes from tax-payers) to subsidise the holidays of those who can afford to go - just to rub people's noses in it. I'm sure the media (who will be having the holidays) will think that's a super idea and will keep asking the question of Government.

@changingnames786 I still don't get what does travel industry have to do with this.
No one can travel. No one is saying to ban holidays and let only people visiting families travel. If anything it's that the family travel should be allowed before maybe so in the end it would actually bring more people into the industry earlier?

Mainly though. The moan was about difference between going for a week on a beech and week to visit family.

Zig4zag most employers call annual leave "statutory leave entitlement" or simply "annual leave" - refering to it as "holiday" is usually just colloquial.

Taking that a touch too serious schrodinger

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Zig4zag most employers call annual leave "statutory leave entitlement" or simply "annual leave" - refering to it as "holiday" is usually just colloquial.

Sense of humour failure.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Mainly though. The moan was about difference between going for a week on a beech and week to visit family.

And this is what I'm saying, what's the difference? The former is more justified? You will struggle to visit family if the lesser latter scenario is banned for too long, just look at Australia, how difficult it is to get there atm because of the number flights. The sanctimonious attitude is what I've highlighted, you think your reasons are more justified, but you will rely on the less justified reasons of others to get travelling again.

changingnames786 I think you're on a slightly different tangent to the rest of the thread - most of us are talking about obtuse (or deliberately obtuse to cover pandering to spiteful attitudes to immigrants and emigrants) choice of vocabulary in the media and by politicians, and about what's allowed legally - not about the aviation industry.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme and I am highlighting the obtuse attitudes to those who want to travel for any reason other than visiting family. I haven't talked about what's legal, everything I have said has been about attitudes.