Disgusted By Dentists Behaviour!!!

[Windchangeface]

We moved home week before the pandemic and then non of the dentists were taking on patients.

This made me very nervous, I kept an eye out to jump as soon as they opened up.

Well...as of a few weeks ago 3/5 practises within a 15 mile radius of us put up notices on their websites ‘taking on new patients’ great I rang to register me, DH and small DS. But oh no, they aren’t taking on any NHS patients only private or Denplan! (Would cost us a minimum of £50 per month and I’m currently pregnant so should be free anyway). The receptionists at all 3 massively tried to sell me Denplan and actually made me feel like a total sponge for asking about NHS.

‘Most families prefer Denplan’ erm sorry Shannon but I highly doubt ‘most’ families prefer to spend £50+ per month on something that should be £20 a visit for them and free for their kids!

One of the receptionists even told me (in a very snooty tone) ‘no we aren’t taking NHS patients we’ve got enough of those) another stated ‘we’ve met our quota for NHS so are only taking paying patients’.

Given DH is a Dr who spends all day looking after hospital patients free of charge I’m at a loss to understand why dentists feel they’re above the NHS.

Horrible, elitist attitude excluding people who can’t afford to pay from adequate healthcare and forcing those who can to pay high premiums they shouldn’t have to!

I think it’s disgraceful that NHS dentistry cover is just pot luck. We’re either entitled to it or not, it shouldn’t just be random. Those missing out are paying towards it in their taxes just like others. It’s a completely unfair system, it needs to be consistent.

They are profit making businesses. There are some advantages to them of NHS work (steady income) but they make far more profit on private consultations. They’re not nhs employees so under no obligation to have an nhs contract. I agree with you that the system is ridiculous. For a start it’s not based on need so there are many people on low incomes having to pay privately and others on high income lucky enough to have found an nhs dentist

If you live near a teaching hospital you could get seen by a (closely supervised) student. It will probably take hours though.

In some parts of the country nhs dentistry is easier (Not easy) to come by eg. North East or Scotland.

The government has over years chosen to not fund dentistry for most adults, it’s not the practises or dentists fault. Lots of dentists go into it because they are interested in the science or patient care not the money. They can’t work for free though and if there is no nhs work available, they could not pay for the physical practise or nurses, so understandably do private work.

I don’t have a den plan, but i put aside around £50 per month for dentistry for as and when I may need it.

@Windchangeface

I did ask about a waiting list and they just tried to sell me how quickly they could see patients on den plan. No direct answer and certainly no offer to add us to the waiting list.

I did ask if DH and I went on Den plan if kids could be NHS and no ‘but kids are reduced prices on denplan’ not what I asked but ok (still cost roughly £10-£15 each per month).

I can probably work our budget to accommodate paying £50-£75 a month on dental care but we will really feel it and it irritates me that a service we are told should be free as we are already paying for via taxes isnt! It’s not like we use dental services regularly so certainly aren’t a drain on the system but a yearly check up and the safety net of having a dentist should something go wrong is essential for everyone.

We are lucky enough not to be on minimum wage but there is a difference between minimum wage and ‘average’ U.K. family income. Min wage is poverty for families but families earning £20-£50k especially in pricey areas are not ‘ungrateful and should be paying for dental care privately to free up provision for those more needy’

If the nhs can not fund dental care then surely it should just pull the whole system and change it to those on no income and kids free, everyone else paying a low and reasonable rate.

But that’s exactly what they’ve done. Nhs dentists still charge a small fee for appts for most people. It’s just that there isn’t enough for even these type of patients.

I do agree with you op it’s not right and I don’t see it as my civic duty to get den plan so that lower income people can get on the nhs dentist list. We recently moved and my partner changed dentists easily- so it’s not a countrywide issue.

When I was a student I got an abcess and I rang 101 because I had no dentist. Supposedly they are supposed to find you an emergency dentist that day - I got one two days later and got my antibiotics from that but I still had to hunt out an nhs practise to get the bad tooth out which was several months waiting.

Don't blame the dentists, blame the government. Yes, I think dental care should be free, the fact it isn't is not the fault of dentists.

And I hate the attitude that the NHS is stretched therefore people should either pay extortionate prices or go without. We are all paying for this, we shouldn’t just accept a gradual degradation of care.

@Windchangeface

I don’t think the NHS is a never ending source of money but what are people who can’t afford private dental supposed to do? Shouldn’t at least children be guaranteed care?

I feel like if it were hospitals acting this way ‘yes you do need the operation but we’ve met our quota of free operations so you’ll either have to pay for it or go away’ then people would be having a fit! I’m unsure why dentists are the service that it’s ‘ok’ to do this with.

Individual dentists aren’t responsible for ensuring there are adequate NHS dentistry. That’s NHS England’s responsibility. There’s no need to be derogatory towards the staff who work there. I don’t agree they should be snotty but then you are being a tad snotty about have a DH doctor and an expensive home.

Doctors employed by the NHS and GPs receive huge levels of financial support not provided to dentists. They operate as purely independent businesses, needing to buy or lease their surgeries. GPs by comparison receive direct funding for their premises costs.

Yuck. Really catty reverse snobbery about ‘doctors wives’ - how sexist can you get?
I agree with you op.
We went private in the end and the kids are free there. After the first app it was £50 per visit for me so cheaper than denplan... but I have good teeth thanks to childhood braces and loads of lovely nhs free care.

I’m confused. My dentist is private and I pay for check ups and treatment as needed (I don’t have Denplan). But my kids are still free.

Btw we received tax credits when DH was a (very) junior doctor, although that was before UC.

UK population have been propoganda d out of dental care over decades. Dentists are only in it for the cash and have no interest in their patients. It's a hard sell industry.

I wonder if your DH would treat patients without an nhs or private payment agreement? I imagine not. Dentists get allocated x amount of nhs dental work per year. It’s not up to each dentist how much they can do for the nhs. This year the amount has gone down dramatically.

@Spillanelle

And I hate the attitude that the NHS is stretched therefore people should either pay extortionate prices or go without. We are all paying for this, we shouldn’t just accept a gradual degradation of care.

Exactly this.

We’ve never had an issue getting an NHS dentist here so some of the comments about them being really rare must be postcode dependant.

I totally agree with you. NHS dentistry should be available to everyone. It’s already means tested at the treatment level.

We are all paying for this

The point is that we aren't paying enough though.

Dental health is part of the of your health. Unfortunately it has never been taken seriously and funded properly. Even on the NHS the majority of patients pay towards everything other than checkups. Yet, as you can see from the many responses here that universal healthcare is not universally supported.

I'm with you, OP. You've been badly treated for feeling like a pariah in dental surgeries and on here.

In England my NHS dentist eventually became a private practice because he couldn't afford to survive on nhs payments. In Scotland I've had no problems getting an NHS dentist. Those dentists have been to university for free so their training is state funded is their practice. In Scotland we voted to pay higher taxes for better services. England seems to prefer Conservative policies on tax and spend.

Good luck finding an nhs dentist!

@Windchangeface If you can afford £50-£75 a month for Denplan, surely you would be better off paying as you go?

I've had private dental care for years. My costs are 1 check up annually and 2-3 hygienist appts. Check up is around £45 and the cleans the same. Thankfully I've not had to have any other treatment for decades.

YANBU at all. The situation with dentists is appalling, and shows what a semi privatised NHS will look like.

Will you still expect free dental when he earns £60k+

So your argument is that health care should be means tested?

Dentistry had effectively been removed from NHS care for many people, the government is just to dishonest to admit it.

As for call 111 - don't make me laugh. Even emergency dentistry has been non existent around here, despite the claims of the healthcare theoreticians.

@Saff2015

I’m also shocked that you believe people tarnish doctors as not earning as much as you think, but believe dentists earn more.

I’m an nhs dentist (solely nhs) and earn £35,000 a year. That’s for working 8-7pm. I also have lab bills to pay from that, have the joys of being self employed with no real benefits of employment. My wage has dropped on a yearly basis since 2006 and the new contract came in, as labs increase their bills yearly (as they should) but the price I get paid per unit of dental activity has stayed the same. Practices are sinking as the money they are paid isn’t enough to support the costs.

I’m in the north and around here we have endless dentists taking on new patients. I chose to stay nhs and accept the lesser pay but I can understand why colleagues wouldn’t be happy considering the £80,000 debt we get into just to qualify and the £800 gdc fees we pay a year as well as the £400 a month indemnity we need to pay in order to practice.

Unfortunately as costs of living are higher in the south most dentists choose to stay north. There are some who own practices of course or work in central London who can earn large amounts (in a similar way a doctor can) but for the most part we need to stay north to keep costs down.

But the £80k is irrelevant if you’re earning £35k. You’ll only pay 9% above 26k. Regardless. Start Earning more it might become an issue.

chocolateorangeinhaler seriously? And are you one of those that would froth at the mouth if someone suggested people on benefits can’t afford to have children either, so shouldn’t have them if they can’t afford to bring them up?

Your husband is a doctor you can clearly afford to pay. This is no different to millionaire pensioners claiming the winter fuel allowance when the don't need it. NHS is designed to be universal to provide care as a good service to those who couldn't afford it otherwise. Read the Beveridge Report, it was not designed to cater for millionaires or those who don't need state support for medical treatment, that leads to rationing of care for those who can't afford it and need it.

I can't work due to a disability, so I get a free check up. But I pay for the hygienist, which I always need as I drink too much coffee and have to have a scale and polish.

They always give me the hard sell to get my teeth bleached, but I can't justify it as I'd only yellowize them again.

@Windchangeface The Denplan thing sounds extortionate to me. If you dial the number here www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/how-to-find-an-nhs-dentist/ you can find your nearest available NHS dentist. If you're only getting checkups mostly, then it won't matter so much if you have to have a longer trip maybe. I know that in some areas people have to travel quite a way.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

Have you tried dentists in Bristol?
I have never had a problem finding an NHS one here.

I agree more public money should be spent looking after people’s health more holistically including oral health. My experience is that dentists care more about their patients teeth and oral health than the patients themselves 😉