Did you make the choice to be / not be religious?

[the0logical]

Just been reading another thread on here about religion and I always think the theological discussions on here are fascinating.

I'll start - I identify as an athiest, I was brought up in a non-religious family but attended heavily Catholic schools. I didn't like some of the ideologies that became mixed into the religious elements of my schooling (e.g. through correlation or randomness, the most "devout" children were always the most prejudiced) and this pushed me away from entering into any faith. I studied Philosophy & Religion at a higher level and then learned about my perception of fallacies in most major religions, which I couldn't seem to logically support especially when I didn't have any feelings of faith. I've never felt the capacity to let myself be succumbed by a religion, though I have tried - I just don't believe.

So, guess I'm just curious to know some reasons why people are / aren't religious and how much of a "choice" it is. Not a reporter before anyone asks, just a nerd who loves anecdotes especially in a religious debate!

YABU - I made an active choice to become religious, or to become non-religious
YANBU - I didn't make any choice, I have always believed / never believed
(hoping that makes sense!)

@DaisyWaldron. I can really relate to this. On balance, the times I have chosen to follow my faith have worked out better for me than not.

I think it is interesting that someone talked about the different faiths and how could any of us know which is the right one? To me, that kind of thinking is strange - each faith has set of practises wrapped up in a philosophical perspective that made sense at the time and place they came from. I don’t personally subscribe to the idea that we carry all of that from the past into our present but rather we look for the broad truths that illuminate a way through for us, emotionally and these truths do seem to be broadly similar across faiths as they are shaped by the human interaction with the world and the underlying themes don’t change.

Raised as agnostic (not even christened, because my mum thought it would be hypocritical to do it when not believing in it), but when I was nearly 10 my mum converted to Catholicism (long story, but partly because my dad walked out and she was looking for consolation) and I went to church regularly til I was 18 or so. As I am gay, Catholicism was not for me and I ran away from it as soon as I left home and was an ardent humanist/atheist for about 12 years. Then met a partner who was quite religious, and I'd always loved some aspects of the church, the ritual, the singing and had always sort of continued to believe in God, so we started going to Episcopalian churches (I am in the US) and completely found my people - all the beauty, all the God, terrific singing but none of the awfulness that I see in some forms of Catholicism, so here I am , 20-odd years later!

Just want to say I'm really enjoying this thread and it's so nice to have an open discussion about it without it turning nasty.

Getting lots of ideas for further reading too.

Those of you who are atheists, how would you feel if your DC chose to be religious when they were older?

I am an atheist. My boys wanted to be confirmed and do from what they have said believe in god, as does my wife.

They all know I am an atheist and it has never caused an issue. It is their belief and I treat it with respect.

How hard can it be?

On the question of where does a tendency towards faith come from, I would suggest that we all have this tendency as the only way to retain our sanity in our day to day lives.

Ask yourself, how do you "know" that the sun will rise tomorrow? Do you know this because you understand the structure of the solar system and the nature of gravity etc? Or, at least for day to day stuff, do you "believe" or "have faith" that the sun will rise because it always does? This is perhaps a trite example, but I think that we all spend most of our time "believing" that our expectations of the world around us are correct, based not only on our own experience but also on what we have been told by others. Even when you have a lot of scientific training and understanding, you can't be thinking about the details every single time you glance at something. Most of us don't try to estimate the stopping distance of a car when we are crossing the road, we rely on learned instincts and judgements. It's fun to think about some of these things some of the time, but you can't do it all the time!

I was quite struck when I was first at uni studying physics, that you rarely come across an agnostic physicist. Many of us were committed Christians, or other religions, and others (possibly a minority though I never tried to count) were strong atheists. The nature of how we examined the world around us and thought about how things work and where they come from, meant that we had usually thought deeply about some of the questions that science, and in particular physics, cannot answer.

So yes, I think belief in what-will-happen and why-things-happen is probably an essential part of being human, though it comes in many different guises.

Absolutely no religion here.
Too many years of having it forced on me when I was a child. First by a parent who used the church as a way to curry favour and make themselves look better than they are. And then at secondary school with it's own church on site and enforced church services. However religion/faith is a very personal and individualistic thing.

Interestingly one of my dc goes to a school which nominally is very religious. However the headteacher (who I believe is ordained) and the chaplain both share the view that forcing religion on the children is often counterproductive. Instead it's there to be discovered as and when the children want to. Works really well and I believe the lunchtime services are popular for the cake served afterwards

I identify as an agnostic atheist. I.e I do not believe in God but don't claim to know that there isn't a God. I had an Independent Methodist chapel upbringing. Was christened, and confirmed as a teen, but don't attend any kind of church, though feel closest to Anglo-Catholicism rather than Methodism.

This idea that they all paint similar ethics

That's how I view them (in the main).

Interesting points Bibabbles, thanks for sharing

I have spoken to many who have experienced war and loss and ironically, it is those who have faith who seem to be able to manage the trauma they have experienced, let it go and move on to live the rest of their lives

Yes, I think so too, otherwise life could be unbearable at times. That's why I think it's disingenuous to not expose children to the idea of (some) religion, it's a very useful tool (whether they decide to believe when they are older is another matter, of course)

contextless relationship with someone conveniently invisible and inaudible described in detail by a poster on another current thread, in which God sounds like a comfort blanket, personalised to the individual

Maybe, but I think it's better to have that 'comfort blanket' than not having it?

I think exposure to multiple religions and world views for children is a good thing. It's great to give them a menu of different options to choose from.

Brainwashing children and teaching them that one particular religion or world view is the only right option is very damaging.

I was raised in a Christian household. Initially my parents were more culturally Christian, but then my DM became more religious (getting into the whole evangelical thing) and I ended up going to an evangelical christian school. I didn’t really feel comfortable with it. Then in my early teens my parents starting getting involved in messianic Christianity (it’s where Christians take in Jewish practices etc) and Jews for Jesus, and I felt a real affinity with Judaism. The first time I went to a synagogue was like I had arrived home. It all made sense. I then moved schools when we moved to a standard sixth form. I would not recommend doing that to a child. There I had a really agnostic (maybe even atheist?) teacher and it was the first time in ages that is ever really met or spoken to someone like that. I then got really into philosophy, read all about different things but I still felt a very strong pull to Judaism. I finally did a full orthodox conversion when I was in my 20s and I now live as someone who probably be categorised as modern orthodox. I keep kosher at home and when out, keep all the holidays and Shabbat, the laws of family purity etc. I do sometimes wonder what my life would be like if I didn’t convert, but I know ultimately I wouldn’t be happy as it is something that is so intrinsic for me. When I was studying for the conversion, everything came easily, I picked up Hebrew quickly, it’s really odd.
Judaism has a different idea of faith - it’s not that you have to blindly believe, you’re encouraged to challenge all the time. There have been times when I’ve felt so distant from Hashem and sometimes when it’s come easily. It’s a journey. The rest of my family is on the CoE / vaguely Christian to atheist spectrum.

@User09173998

One of the souls at Sinai, eh? Feeling something similar x

Also brought up Cof E. Attended Sunday school and all the various religious events. Choir too. Until I was 16. I read the Bible (cover to cover), finishing while on a bus to a friend's house. I had an atheistic epiphany on the last page and had to get off the bus and walk, it was so profound. I haven't believed in a God since.

I will still go to church (any), to support friends. I'll even sing the hymns but cannot say the Lord's Prayer.

Wasn’t raised in a religious household, though would go and look round churches, liked choral religious music etc - so no aversion to the “trappings” of religion as it were. Then at uni I got myself a religious boyfriend, and I did my level best to see if I could convert myself. Went along to various alpha courses etc. I thought - well, I’ll give it a go. See if I can unearth a hidden faith, awaken belief etc. I went along to church with him, and by myself. Talked to people etc. And after a couple of years, I remember being in an alpha meeting, and someone said something like “you know that feeling that we all have, deep down, that there’s something More to life, that spiritual core, that sense of a higher being” (or something like that). And everyone nodded and said “oh yes, we all feel that, yes..” and I just thought “nope, never felt that in my life. Never felt it, never missed it, never particularly felt like I even needed or wanted it”. So I gave up soon after, stopped going along, and resigned myself to happy atheism. Or agnosticism. Whichever it is.

I think exposure to multiple religions and world views for children is a good thing. It's great to give them a menu of different options to choose from

Yes, but in my experience I've never seen this 'menu' superficial approach really working. If a parent would like their children to be religious or spiritual even, they need to be taught religion with certain depth by someone who is religious.

It may be that they would rather their children grew up as atheists, and that's fine, but the 'they can choose when they are adults which religion they would like to adopt' approach rarely works (at least I've never seen it working in practice myself)

@Ragwort

Those of you who are atheists, how would you feel if your DC chose to be religious when they were older?

I asked the same question on here a few years ago and was told by one mumsnetters that they would actually be very disappointed if their DC had a faith.

My close friend at school was raised by her strongly atheist father, she had to sit out of assembly and RE lessons .... in her 50s she has now become quite religious .....

As I said earlier, I was not raised to attend church regularly or be 'religious' but for the last 40 years being a church member has been important to me.

Might have been me. I would genuinely be quite upset.

I'm an atheist and wouldn't bother me unless it involved having values that I didn't agree with.

I have spoken to many who have experienced war and loss and ironically, it is those who have faith who seem to be able to manage the trauma they have experienced, let it go and move on to live the rest of their lives

Yes, I think so too, otherwise life could be unbearable at times. That's why I think it's disingenuous to not expose children to the idea of (some) religion, it's a very useful tool (whether they decide to believe when they are older is another matter, of course)

Most of the countries at war would appear to be religious, There aren’t many secular countries fighting anymore are there?

@Thewinterofdiscontent

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Jackie can you explain why, not bring goady ... I am genuinely interested.

Because I find it bizarre that people can have a belief in something there is literally no evidence for. I would feel similarly if a child of mine became a flat earther or a member of Qanon. I find religion genuinely quite disturbing, when I think of members of the clergy I don't think of a supportive, comforting person, I think of a person with power to abuse and attack.

I know this makes me sound really intolerant, and maybe I am, but I just don't get it. I know religious people don't like atheists referring to the SkyDaddy but that is exactly how it feels to me.

@JackieTheFart

Perhaps there is a disconnect between your idea of religion and their understanding of faith? It’s not really comparing like with like. I share many of the same reservations about organised religion and leaders as atheists do - it’s the owner structure that I think they are criticising but my faith (waning as it is) is separate to that power structure. This is something that older members have often pointed out as many people in RC are critical of things and I have found there is always an open dialogue with others about faith/religious issues. We have to question it - I don’t know where there is idea that we don’t comes from.

Power structure not owner structure

I was bought up going to Sunday school then had a massive surge of faith one day (probably was coming down with something ) and asked to be baptised (was about 10). Then a few years later, one day just realised it all seemed like nonsense and I didn't believe in it any more. Still don't. It was never an active choice for me, just a question of faith.