To feel sad that the world of work as we knew it has gone forever?

[Youngatheart00]

My work confirmed today we are moving to 100% remote working and will only get together a few times a year for team meetings. I find this so sad. I loved my working life - I know realise so much of that was down to the people. Now all I do all day is stare at screens and give myself a migraine.

They are justifying it by saying ‘most people’ want this despite me never seeing any such survey. It’s a blatant cost cutting exercise.

Anyone else fed up and lonely?

@Ellpellwood

Some people seem to have a little cushy job, chit chatting with colleagues and having a laugh. Some of us have targets to meet and things to do, not an important role as such, but actually go to the office to DO something.

Oh bore off. I'm sorry your job is so Important that you couldn't possibly be expected to talk to the other peasants.

It's very interesting and quite telling you translate me being busy and having to justify my working hours to someone as "important".

I am sorry I touched a nerve with you, but your points about chit chatting is exactly the arguments I have been using to push reducing the office as much as we possibly can.

If you want to talk with someone, meet for coffee, arrange lunch, join a gym. Some of us would rather do more in less hours and have more free time for social life and leisure.

I don't even need to travel to central London to buy a sandwich and have a chat, I can pick one on on the way from school...

@thecatandthevicar

You haven't touched a nerve at all. Just see how far you get patronising the average person by calling their setup a "little" job. Particularly women who are part-time.

[quote HerculesMulligann]@thecatandthevicar Surely it’s the norm for most people to get some of their social life and general interaction with others from their work environment. I think you’re probably the outlier here.

I think one of the benefits of physical workplaces is the variety of people you meet. In my central London office I talk to people aged from 20-60. My colleagues come from across the world and have a wide range of backgrounds, political viewpoints etc. Chatting to them gives me insights into a whole range of things.

If I attempted to replace this element of my life by strengthening eg my local friendships, something would be lost. My local friends are generally people like me - forty something, usually mums, white, middle class, homeowners. Going to work and talking to people who aren’t like you is essential I think. Otherwise people will be forced even further into their echo chambers and have even less understanding of the situations of people who are not like them in some way. Which is only going to be bad for society.[/quote]
I couldnt agree more, I think retreating into working from home, being able to almost curate exactly who we interact with on a daily basis is bad for us in terms of our developement as people and bad for society. There's a good chsnce that if we are never forced to interact more widely, to have the quick chat with the lady who cleans the offices or to see what homelessness actually means or to observe for ourselves how hard people in the service industry work (e.g during the lunch rush at a busy cafe or coffee shop) that we will care even less about the position and rights of people who dont have the luxury or privelege of well paid work from home office work. Not to worry, if some people on here get their way, there'll be no work for people like that anyway.

I struggle to meet like minded people in my locality. It seemes very insular. I am 48, have been to college, travelled, do a corporate job, have two tweens. My locality is full of women who got married at 20, settled in the locality, maybe work part time in a shop off and on, are wrapped up in the locality.

They wouldn't even think of doing a city break pre covid, even when kids are older. They have a sun holiday every year.

With work, I was able to connect with like minded people, who would have worked all their lives, even though some may not have gone to college. They are more open to new experiences, whatever their age, interested in the world around them.

I know I could arrange to meet up from time to time. However, everyone is busy with kids activities etc in evenings, pre covid. My workplace was about 20 miles away and a lot of people could be 20 or 30 miles in another direction, so it would be a lot of driving and time to meet of an evening. Everybody was at work for breaks and lunches, so I could socialise with people.

I am very quiet and would not ask people openly to meet up. Tea breaks were a great chance to talk to people. From time to time the departnent would have a lunch and I depended on work for a social life. I have friends who I meet of an evening for coffee after work, pre covid. It is the same story, we meet in town after work. With us all working from home we would have to travel to town specially. I would have to ensure dh is around to mind kids, whereas when I was out all day, it was easier to stay out and not have kids ask me where am I going, wanting to come with me etc.

Work is offering part of the week wfh. However, as kids need secondary school collection, I may not be able to go to the office as often as I would like. Also, colleagues are in the same boat, and people may be in the office different days going forward, so harder to meet up.

If you want to talk with someone, meet for coffee, arrange lunch, join a gym. Some of us would rather do more in less hours and have more free time for social life and leisure.

And, once again, I am now back in the office. I'm speaking generally about WFH, the downsides, and how I found it recently. But to get into specifics, I get 30 minutes lunch. At least 3 other posters have explained that work is their child-free time. It's often the only time single parents have childcare. It is a convenient way to regain an indentity that isn't "mum" when you have small kids. I don't know how you can't see that an hour at a running club or a café doesn't make up for a lack of just plain having adult company for several hours a day.

@Ellpellwood thank you. Thats exactly how I feel.....I have friends....i miss being an adult socially and socially engaging with other people. I have lots of work to do.....so i cant just take time off during the day. the five mins chat in the kitchen was invaluable for that. my usual problem is to even have time to leave the house during the day because of the volume of work.

[quote Ellpellwood]@thecatandthevicar

You haven't touched a nerve at all. Just see how far you get patronising the average person by calling their setup a "little" job. Particularly women who are part-time.[/quote]
As my post wasn't remotely gender or job specific at all, just commenting on the posters who only go to work for a few hours to chit chat with colleagues (something my own dad would do these days), I'd find it very depressing that it's WOMEN, with PT job, whose nerve is touched.

And again, if the only reason you have a job is the social aspect (as well as paying the bills), there's no lack of opportunities.

I am an extrovert! I am absolutely miserable in the lockdown. I still wouldn't call "adult company" being in front of my computer in a an open-plan office when I am trying to get work done.

So it's amazing that people who didn't have that choice before, and have a job which really doesn't need to be done in an office, finally have this opportunity. All the other jobs still exist.

I honestly can't picture trying to sell going back to the office to my bosses by saying "Doris and Donald are a bit bored and lonely at home and want their desk back to resume their chit chat and tea rounds".

As another poster said, it is that 5 minute chat while in the canteen, that would lift your heart. Work is a great connection for people who don't have childcare of an evening or don't have time to socialise.

I know people say to join a class. I, and a lot of posters may be in smaller localities which don't have pilates etc on at all different times. I would have to travel 8 miles to gyms etc. By the time all that is done it would be a huge part of the working day gone. Wfh is handy for fitting in a small jog/walk at lunchtime but I don't have loads of time to travel to classes. At work, I was in the city anyway and could fit in an odd class.

@Ellpellwood thank you. Thats exactly how I feel.....I have friends....i miss being an adult socially and socially engaging with other people. I have lots of work to do.....so i cant just take time off during the day. the five mins chat in the kitchen was invaluable for that. my usual problem is to even have time to leave the house during the day because of the volume of work.

This is exactly my situation too. I miss adult company during the day. I still have to put in the same hours per week so even if I became twice as productive at home (I’m not - some things are much harder and more time consuming to do remotely) then I wouldn’t have any more free time than previously. DH has been going out to work throughout because he can’t work from home, and agrees with me that for all the risks that brings, he had the better deal.

I honestly can't work out why you seem so annoyed that anyone doesn't like working from home, thecatandthevicar, and so determined to prove that they must somehow be wrong or doing it wrong. I'm perfectly willing to accept that you prefer working from home and that it works better for you so I can't understand why you can't do the same with other people's preferences - why are you so convinced that everyone else must feel the same as you and that working from home must be the objectively superior choice?

If I attempted to replace this element of my life by strengthening eg my local friendships, something would be lost. My local friends are generally people like me - forty something, usually mums, white, middle class, homeowners. Going to work and talking to people who aren’t like you is essential I think.

Your workplace may be different but I'm now white, my background isn't middle class, I'm relatively young and not a parent.

I do make small-talk with people in your demographic (because it's a soft-requirement of any corporate job to be somewhat affable), but I would probably laugh if any of them said something like this based on interactions with me.

I code-switch and avoid subjects that have a possibility to become controversial in the workplace (I outright lie about my opinions from time to time, just to save me some trouble).

My main concern is getting paid, not enriching people's cultural lives and not rocking the boat facilitates that.

Going to work and talking to people who aren’t like you is essential I think.

I totally agree with this. My work friendships encompass people a lot younger and older than me. There wouldn’t be many opportunities for me to get close to people like this outside of work. It can be very enriching.

I honestly can't work out why you seem so annoyed that anyone doesn't like working from home, thecatandthevicar

I don’t get it either. It’s strange.

@Hardbackwriter

I honestly can't work out why you seem so annoyed that anyone doesn't like working from home, thecatandthevicar, and so determined to prove that they must somehow be wrong or doing it wrong. I'm perfectly willing to accept that you prefer working from home and that it works better for you so I can't understand why you can't do the same with other people's preferences - why are you so convinced that everyone else must feel the same as you and that working from home must be the objectively superior choice?

I am not annoyed at all, I am just very conscious that all the businesses haven't yet decided to adopt the system, and I am currently working very hard to ensure the proposal for MY business goes through and no bright spark decide that some time in the office would be good after all

I am also having this discussion with clients A LOT at the moment, the points about well being, work life balance, productivity, cost efficiency etc.. are not really ground breaking questions.

I know people have other preferences, but did they really care about the work force that was depressed every Sunday night about going back to the office?

Ultimately, some jobs must be done face-to-face, in a business place. A few jobs actually don't. Going backward to force people back in the office when it's not necessary, when WFH has all been put in place and we proved it's working, going backward would not make any sense at all.

Put it another way, until last year, WFH was the exception.

It will need a bit more time for WFH to be the rule (for the very few jobs where it's even possible) so we have to be sure it does happen.

I think businesses should let people decide for themselves, and have smaller offices where people can book a desk to go in for the day if they want the option to now and again, or have a permanent desk if they don't want to be at home. I want to stay at home full time, but don't see why my choice should dictate others, exactly the same as why someone who wants to be in all the time shouldn't decide for me that I have to be as well. I haven't missed the office once.

I honestly can't picture trying to sell going back to the office to my bosses by saying "Doris and Donald are a bit bored and lonely at home and want their desk back to resume their chit chat and tea rounds".

There is much more to it than this. Especially if you work in teams creatively or on strategy. Zoom goes so far but it can be dulling.

It sounds quite superior to keep talking about chit chat and tea rounds etc

I also think competition will lead the way and sectors will respond to what wins work. Which for some sectors might be as before - a decent space.

I am for a mix overall. And agree with pp that a day of research etc is good wfh. Zoom isn’t so good. And pubs / cafes etc are rubbish esp if you have to talk. I find them rubbish even if you don’t.

I am lucky though in that I have a horse, so I see other people every day and talk to others every day. So it's not like I miss out on anything, plus if me and my colleagues just fancy a chat, we have one. Bosses don't care, we are hard working.

Some people seem to have a little cushy job, chit chatting with colleagues and having a laugh. Some of us have targets to meet and things to do, not an important role as such, but actually go to the office to DO something.

The problem with the open plan office is how distracting people's conversations can be for others.

WFH is nice for minimal distractions. Although I could do without the constant emails.

I’ve WFH for almost 20 years and it suited my circumstances well. However when first lockdown happened I missed the physical meetings and even the travelling to get to them.

PPs who pointed out that WFH doesn’t normally mean only working from home.

I think it’s good that more people have learned new remote working skills but the success has been more marked for people with bigger homes with less bodies in them all trying to access the same broadband.

Whilst some employers are being a bit ‘all or nothing’ about this (and some may be a bit disingenuous about the reasons for their new working formats), it’s more likely that a hybrid version will be adopted by most companies. Personally, once our social lives can properly resume, this may be a good thing for everyone. Less commute costs, stress and reduced emissions and congestion, more space on public transport, better work/life balance and more people able to do more for their communities such as volunteering.

It will be important to not make it all or nothing as young, new and returning employees will need to spend more time in the office for practical and development reasons.

I am currently working very hard to ensure the proposal for MY business goes through and no bright spark decide that some time in the office would be good after all

I sincerely hope your business takes into account the needs of all its employees and doesn't steamroller right over their concerns like you seem to be.

@Ellpellwood

I am currently working very hard to ensure the proposal for MY business goes through and no bright spark decide that some time in the office would be good after all

I sincerely hope your business takes into account the needs of all its employees and doesn't steamroller right over their concerns like you seem to be.

Agreed, though if the @thecatandthevicar is as condescending and lacking in empathy for others as she appears here, it certainly won't bother her if they don't!

Agreed, though if the @thecatandthevicar is as condescending and lacking in empathy for others as she appears here, it certainly won't bother her if they don't!

what was your empathy for all the workers who had to commute in ridiculous conditions and who were desperate not to have to go to an office - but had bills to pay?

Or is it fair to say they didn't really bother you, did they...

The needs of ALL employees were never considered when flexible work or WFH was not an option, that's the problem.

You applied for a job 2 hours away. There not being any jobs offering your salary within 2 hours needs you needed to move or change industry, not that your colleagues should have their contracts altered wholesale because you're sick of crowded trains/tubes/motorways.