To feel sad that the world of work as we knew it has gone forever?

[Youngatheart00]

My work confirmed today we are moving to 100% remote working and will only get together a few times a year for team meetings. I find this so sad. I loved my working life - I know realise so much of that was down to the people. Now all I do all day is stare at screens and give myself a migraine.

They are justifying it by saying ‘most people’ want this despite me never seeing any such survey. It’s a blatant cost cutting exercise.

Anyone else fed up and lonely?

But...having said that I do understand that not everyone feels the way I do and that's why I think flexibility must be the key going forward. A more humane way of working that allows everyone to manage their work-life balance in a way that suits them. It would be a shame if, as a society, we squandered a chance for positive change for everyone.
Thats the thing , having a choice will be much better as what suits some , won't suit others

it was the adhoc general chats with more senior staff in the canteen or in the hotel bar if working away (or even outside having a cigarette break way back in the day) that built up that confidence and working relationships that meant I got to hear of different things happening outside my department or potential job opportunities that ultimately have put me in the position I am.

Exactly.

But no, it won’t go.

I do sympathise with your personal experience, as I would also love to be able to get back to the office some time soon!

I think tbh this was going to happen with a lot of work places soon, as it is as you say a cost cutting exercise.

It won’t be all employers, so hopefully you can find another job that has some office time.

I don’t think “life as we knew it is over”, there’s more to life than office work!

Each to their own. I'm bloody happy me and dh wfh.
I'd say way more jobs are going back than staying ft wfh so just look for another job.

And most companies will end up catering to that if they want to attract young talent.

Most companies will end up catering to flexible working if they have any sense, because if they force employees into offices for the sake of presenteeism they will lose out on a hell of a lot of talent.

Flexible working - ie, a lot more WFH - was already a trend pre-Covid. The pandemic just accelerated it.

When I first started out I would have been far to shy to have a general chat with someone I didn't know or had never seen face to face over zoom. It was the adhoc general chats with more senior staff in the canteen or in the hotel bar if working away (or even outside having a cigarette break way back in the day) that built up that confidence and working relationships that meant I got to hear of different things happening outside my department or potential job opportunities that ultimately have put me in the position I am. It would be a shame if this is taken away from young people moving into work now.

This is interesting because it's quite the opposite for me. In my 20s I was way too shy and self-conscious to strike up an IRL conversation with anyone I didn't know, let alone anyone senior. Networking events were disastrous for me.

Over email or social media, though? I was perfectly happy to shoot off a quip or pithy message and build up the connection that way. I've chatted and joked with people I'd have never dared talk to IRL. It did my career way more good than being shy and largely silent in an office ever did.

Most companies will end up catering to flexible working if they have any sense, because if they force employees into offices for the sake of presenteeism they will lose out on a hell of a lot of talent.

There will be more flexible working, yes. And that is a good thing, so long as people understand how to manage it to meet their requirements.

For those serious about progression, a good amount of face time in the office will still be important in most companies. Who will end up having most influence in the meeting? The people in the room or the people on zoom?

Lots to still figure out.

As PP said "freezingmarch

Do companies just assume everyone has the space at home to create a suitable working environment? And one that doesn't impact on the rest of the household?"

This could disproportionately affect the younger/more junior workers as they may well have less space and less chance to create a healthy work/live divide in their home.

Work/life.....

Out of interest, to the posters suggesting "get another job", what age are you, where do you live, and what sector do you work in? On balance I think I would rather continue to WFH than move to a different location or re-train (both financially prohibitive atm), but I'm wondering if I'm making naive / incorrect assumptions about the current state of the job market?

I've been wfh for a year. I find it pretty soul destroying tbh.

Yes, there are benefits in that you can reduce commuting time, expenses, get your house stuff done etc. but they do not make up for the lack of cohesion, belonging etc.

I feel like I have had actual cognitive decline over the past months especially. The lack of stimulation is just not good for creativity and innovation - literally not much to spark off. I work in an industry where I need to be pretty creative with ideas, lots of thinking and working things out, and every person who has a job like this knows that their brain needs to have external influences to be sparked. Most of the good ideas you have 'stand on the shoulders of giants' and you just get less of that exposure sat at home on your own.

The key factor for businesses will be productivity....and I can tell you now my productivity is suffering and that will not continue forever in a wfh model - it will need to be hybrid.

The two most senior people in my workplace are 63 and 50. Within a week of being back in the office with them and visible, I'm being given a more interesting project. "Chatting" and networking via social media or email is fine but it needs to be 2-way. They both hate Zoom and send one-line emails at best.

All these people saying 'just get a new job' do they know how many people are looking for work at the moment? All those who've lost their jobs, students about to graduate, people furloughed worrying that they may also need to start looking for work... where are all these jobs that we can apply for if we hate WFH?

For those serious about progression, a good amount of face time in the office will still be important in most companies. Who will end up having most influence in the meeting? The people in the room or the people on zoom?

Depends on a lot of things. Industry, personality...

For me, I started having a lot more influence when I started networking outside the office. Bluntly, I'm just more impressive in writing, when I can consider what I want to say and how I want to say it.

Maybe it won't be a bad thing if the people who like to think before speaking gain more influence instead of industries just being dominated by the loudest and most physically charismatic?

YANBU.
We are very likely to be in same position ( local authority)
They were looking at selling our large offices before covid and building something smaller but now they are talking about renting out a small office space but only for those jobs that cant be done at home. Its definitely cost saving.
I dont miss the commute or the office politics but i do miss chatting to friends/ colleagues and being able to bounce ideas or ask a question and get an immediate answer etc
I think its much harder for those that are younger and starting out who need mentoring or training and who socialise a lot through work

I agree that there are a few “I’m alright Jack” posts on this thread

I don’t subscribe to the popular mumsnet “I have enough friends” point of view. Friendships evolve and move on so deciding to put a cap on making new friends seems odd to me. The view that it is easy to make new friends from hobbies isn’t always as straight forward either. And what about people who move to a new area to start a job, and don’t know anyone where they live? Are they destined to have a lonely life?

I appreciate that there are a fair few people who prefer to work from home – all with very good reason to, but I don’t think it is fair for some posters to sneer at people who prefer social interaction at their place of work rather than on Teams.

Another point I want to make is as a customer of organisations where their staff are working from home I am not getting the same quality of service. When ringing around recently for car insurance quotes the call quality for some of the telephone conversations was very poor. I did the quotes online as well, but I had specific questions to ask that you can never find in FAQ.

Gosh I have absolutely loved it. I have saved a huge amount of money and everyone in the family is much happier and less stressed. I would say this is the common view from my social circle, but we all have established careers, older children, pets who we can now spend more time with. Also, quite a few of us are single so we haven't had other adults to negotiate with over use of the dining table

I was so happy when my employer announced we would be WFH permanently, I did a big happy dance. I have friends in other sectors who have also been told they will have to WFH for most/all of the time so I think it will be increasingly common, but as PP have said, there will still be LOADS of jobs where you are out dealing with the public or in an office and those who prefer that will gravitate to those jobs.

There is nothing inherently "wrong" with either preference and it will take time for all of the recent changes to settle down. However, many businesses will fold if they cannot sell properties or don't renew leases for offices they now find they don't really need.

I think many would prefer there were jobs available even if those jobs are wfh, but for those who find it's having a serious impact on their mental health, I really do feel for you and hope you find a new job soon where your needs can be met.

@MrsJBaptiste

All these people saying 'just get a new job' do they know how many people are looking for work at the moment? All those who've lost their jobs, students about to graduate, people furloughed worrying that they may also need to start looking for work... where are all these jobs that we can apply for if we hate WFH?

They don't exist! And if you want to stay in the same industry chances are the other companies are also WFH. For example, I work in mortgages and all the calls I'm taking from lenders are staff working from home. Doesn't matter which bank or building society.

I'd wager that no one ruling out the idea that young employees can learn and be trained remotely has ever actually been a young person doing this.

Well, I was a young person who trained to be an accountant by close mentoring/supervision in an office some 40 years ago. Over the past 30+ years, I've been the one mentoring/training school, college and Uni leavers to become an accountant.

I've done a huge amount of working online for the past 20 years. My practice is in the North West and I had clients, 20 years ago, living in the South East and some living abroad, who I never met, so I'm not afraid of online communication and was using Skype etc from virtually the moment it appeared, now using Teams, Zoom and probably all the other popular online "meeting" tools.

I've taught clients how to use book-keeping software remotely. It's a pain in the arse as it takes so long, even when you've got the system set up so you can see the others' computer screen and what keys they're pressing etc. It's far quicker and easier to teach a client how to do book-keeping if they're sat next to you. I do it remotely because if a client is a couple of hundred miles away, it has to be done, not because it's better or quicker (it isn't!).

My current trainee is being taught face to face. My next trainee will be taught face to face. You can't teach someone how to be an accountant over Zoom. Well you can, but it would take a lot more time and be far more inefficient for both parties. You can't beat sitting at the next desk to deal with queries etc that come, literally every few minutes from a trainee, looking at their screen, looking at the piece of paper they're holding, etc.

I'm sure some jobs can be taught by zoom, but not the work of an entire profession. Small bits/chunks of work, yes, remote is fine, but not when it's so much to teach that it's a few hours per day, week after week, month after month! The person "teaching" would never get their own job done!

I agree that there are a few “I’m alright Jack” posts on this thread

yes, all the people who had the luxury to have short commute, nice office environment, and want to go back to their cushy little chatty office.

where are all these jobs that we can apply for if we hate WFH?
When the issue was about working in an office, the reverse didn't bother many, did it?

Maybe it won't be a bad thing if the people who like to think before speaking gain more influence instead of industries just being dominated by the loudest and most physically charismatic?

I think that is worse over Zoom/Teams and much better when face to face. Video calls have a slightly different etiquette to face to face in the transition of speech from one person to another - i.e. there is that slight lag in time due to the actual technology where we all hesitate as to who continues talking.....and it is usually the loudest who continues and the traditionally quieter who becomes even quieter.

It is very very easy to have someone say nothing on a video call.

But don't get me started on people who join video calls on mute and cameras off. Why bother?

Maybe it won't be a bad thing if the people who like to think before speaking gain more influence instead of industries just being dominated by the loudest and most physically charismatic?

Of course it wouldn’t be a bad thing. I just don’t think, realistically, it’s going to happen in most places.

If the office culture favours loud and physically charismatic, that won’t change. If management like interacting F2F, that will still be dominant, even if many are wfh.

Another point I want to make is as a customer of organisations where their staff are working from home I am not getting the same quality of service. When ringing around recently for car insurance quotes the call quality for some of the telephone conversations was very poor.

Yes, I fully agree. If organisations and staff want to move to a WFH model, they need to ensure their customer service improves back to where it was pre covid. I've had the misfortune to have to phone numerous organisations over the past year, and nearly ever instance has been unsatisfactory, whether it's been a telecoms company, HMRC, insurers, pension providers, etc. Call waiting times are longer than ever. When you get through, quality of phones/phone lines is often poor, then you find the person you're dealing with can't deal with your query and can't "ask the person at the next desk" either like they would in normal times, or that their computer broadband is so slow it takes forever to do a simple task, or crashes. Organisations will want staff back into their offices if WFH results in lower efficiencies, customer complaints, loss of customers, etc. At the moment, they can get away with crap service "because of covid" but that excuse will soon be unacceptable to customers who have choices of using competitors!

When the issue was about working in an office, the reverse didn't bother many, did it?

Not really, because I wanted to work in an office, and if you didn't then there were opportunities to start your own business from home, work in a shop/café/pub, become a plumber, a builder, a mechanic, a teacher, a driving instructor or even a flipping pilot.

I can't say I felt sorry for people who wanted to be in an office-based profession with the accompanying salary and yet not be in an office.

Another point I want to make is as a customer of organisations where their staff are working from home I am not getting the same quality of service. When ringing around recently for car insurance quotes the call quality for some of the telephone conversations was very poor.

Yes! I used to be a team leader in a small call centre and I didn't take calls. I listened in, took over when customers got abusive, and answered staff questions. That's gone unless you as the call handler keep putting the customer on hold to call someone else.

@sandragreen is your employer doing anything to assess the working environment of each employee? Do they provide everything you need? I've just picked you as you were the most recent person to say their employer has made that decision, sorry! I'm genuinely interested.