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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To be angry at the frenzy caused by others last night

999 replies

BarometerTV · 14/03/2021 12:56

I think it was utterly disrespectful. We are in lockdown and it was not the right time for a protest. I agree with a quiet, respectful, socially distanced space to grieve - which is what appeared to happen during the day.

OP posts:
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1stmonkey · 14/03/2021 21:07

Why on Earth would it not be more appropriate for another London police force to manage the event?

Errr what other London police SERVICE?

Dentistlakes · 14/03/2021 21:07

People turned up when they had been told not to because we are in the middle of a bloody pandemic that’s killed thousands of people. I’m ploughing in with anything. People had a choice to protest in a safe way and they chose not to.

Roussette · 14/03/2021 21:08

What it needed was 20 female officers standing in solidarity for a few hours while respects were paid and everyone went home

That's exactly what I said when the Met refused to allow the vigil to happen, but before it actually happened.

I posted on here... why can't women police offers stand in solidarity. Let that happen.

Then of course it didn't. And it all went wrong.

Lepetitpiggy · 14/03/2021 21:09

@LucieStar

*Here is footage prior to that photo moment * So they were repeatedly asked calmly to move and didn't.
How do we know they were being peacefully asked to move? I felt quite threatened just watching that policeman whispering in her ear. It look like he was quietly provoking her.
LucieStar · 14/03/2021 21:11

How do we know they were being peacefully asked to move? I felt quite threatened just watching that policeman whispering in her ear. It look like he was quietly provoking her.

It looked like nothing of the sort to me, but we all interpret things differently.

MorganKitten · 14/03/2021 21:11

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@MorganKitten and thats fine but if others say they experienced different , doesn't make them wrong
Personally I haven't seen much footage or looked, just feel for the family and how they feel [/quote]
I haven’t said they are wrong - I posted MY experience.

Yes I do understand how the family must feel, a very close friend was murdered a few years ago by an apparently trusted member of the community.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 14/03/2021 21:13

Errr what other London police SERVICE?

That should read “police force” without the London, it’s an error from where I edited my post as I wrote it.

But feel free to ignore the rest of what I said.

thecranberries · 14/03/2021 21:13

This reply has been deleted

We are taking this down as it contains information that may prejudice a trial

Sparechange · 14/03/2021 21:14

@Lepetitpiggy

Not to mention she has nowhere to move to

She has railings in front of her, and a big drop on front of those
Police hemming her in on all sides.

That’s what the police kept screaming ‘move away. Move back from this area’ all while pushing pushing everyone forward.

It’s like when the school bully grabbed your arms and used them to hit you while taunting ‘stop hitting yourself’

thecranberries · 14/03/2021 21:16

@Graphista

Sickening the number of presumably women on this thread who think the mets actions were remotely acceptable, they should never have been allowed to handle this event it's way too close to home for them (and would be whenever it happened)

Frankly there should be an inquiry into the misogyny and bias within the met and not just in relation to the accused officer.

@Roussette that's great you've written to your Mp. A shame you feel it will be ignored.

Regarding news footage, sadly this is also nothing new, it calls to mind for me the way thatchers govt censored footage of the miners strike so that it was edited to look as if the miners were being violent without provocation which was far from true.

It's actually good now that we have sm so that unedited or at least differently edited video footage can be broadcast and often shows things aren't as they were reported on "the news" which means we are all gradually becoming more aware of just how biased the msm are

If people are breaking the law

1 they weren't - a court decided they could go ahead

2 laws aren't always just or fair

Indeed as of tomorrow our civil liberties may well be fucked!

It’s the classic abusers’ line “Now look what you made me do”.

Yep! A pattern of behaviour Eric Berne noted in one of his "games" "see what you made me do"

"and he [the game setter] is only too happy when it [the excuse to attack the other party] occurs"

it was a PR disaster waiting to happen at the very least it was an extremely stupid and irresponsible decision to make to allow met police anywhere near this event

Bloody hell, to the police, and men in general, the right time is never exactly

Isn't the Met commissioner a woman?

Women can be misogynists too

Wow! And now Dick thinks she knows better and has more authority than a judge/court?! She needs to go now!

I find it very odd that claims they were spat at etc are only emerging now - after almost a day of criticism

They're not being "condemned for doing their job" they're being condemned for thinking their job confers on them the right to intimidate and bully others

No but it does give them the right to arrest people, which is what they did. which they are only supposed to do in certain ways and not use excessive force, they are very well trained in how to gain control of a "suspect" and that is not what I saw happening

Did I read right at 1831? Do you REALLY think police protect us all the time? There have been several forces found to have been not recording reports from victims of vawg, not just acting poorly but refusing to even legally record the initial reports.

Recognising that the majority are "good" officers is not an excuse to ignore the "bad" - indeed the good officers WANT the bad ones out! They are just as disgusted when they are protected

Hillsborough tactics would be used and they would be painted as anti lockdowners and Covid deniers.

And that's exactly what's happening isn't it?

Police are also supposed to be able, skilled and trained at identifying and separating any troublemakers from the peaceful people - for the peaceful people's protection too, seems these officers/this force are seriously lacking in training and skills

Agree. Sadly, women who buy into the patriarchy's world view are also the problem. They seem to resist the instinctive reality of their lives.
Sparechange · 14/03/2021 21:17

You don't seem to know Clapham Common do you? As if you did, you'd have realised that there were far more people there two weeks ago on the lovely sunny Saturday than there were at the vigil last night

THIS. A thousand times this.

I have photos of how distanced everyone was right up until the police started forcing people together.

Dorsetdays · 14/03/2021 21:19

@thecranberries and I suggest you moderate your post. No trial has happened yet so please stop declaring guilt.

The last thing the family need is some MN thread jeopardising the trial.

Dentistlakes · 14/03/2021 21:21

The fact remains that people had a choice. It was clear what the police response was going to be if they did. People turned up anyway and in my opinion they had the right to do so, but they knew in advance they would be breaking the law by doing so. That being the case, I don’t understand why people are surprised by the police response. Whether that is right or wrong compared to what they have allowed other groups to do in recent weeks is another matter.

1stmonkey · 14/03/2021 21:24

@brightyellowdaffodil

It's ridiculous because the Met are responsible for London. You don't draft in other police services to do your job just because it's difficult.

It's ridiculous because had it escalated further, the Met would have been responsible for that too. They can't manage a situation if they aren't present.

It's ridiculous to suggest that more than 40,000 police officers shouldn't do their job because of one arsehole.

It's ridiculous because no matter how much anger, vitriol and abuse you throw at them, they still come when you call.

thecranberries · 14/03/2021 21:24

[quote Dorsetdays]@thecranberries and I suggest you moderate your post. No trial has happened yet so please stop declaring guilt.

The last thing the family need is some MN thread jeopardising the trial.[/quote]
Really? You're now going down this path?

OK. Then I shall tell you clearly that all I have said is what has already been reported in many media. How on earth could I possibly influence the outcome of a trial with knowledge already out there?

Seriously, you just seem to want to bash anyone who does not have your point of view and who seems to put out facts to counteract your predetermined view of events.

I'd suggest you find another hill.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 14/03/2021 21:25

but they knew in advance they would be breaking the law by doing so

The law is not clear on whether protests are allowed or not so no, the people attending last night did not “know” either way because no one does.

Sparechange · 14/03/2021 21:26

The fact remains that people had a choice. It was clear what the police response was going to be if they did.

How was it clear? I had no idea the police would decide the best way to respond to one of their own being arrested for a brutal killing would be to all act like thugs when totally unprovoked. Please do share the memo I missed...

People turned up anyway and in my opinion they had the right to do so, but they knew in advance they would be breaking the law by doing so.

Again, weird. Because I’m Friday I read a report from a High Court judge explicitly saying he was unable to rule the gathering would be illegal. Amazing that you have some legal insights that trump those of a high court judge.

That being the case, I don’t understand why people are surprised by the police response. Whether that is right or wrong compared to what they have allowed other groups to do in recent weeks is another matter.

You don’t understand why people are surprised at an act of unprovoked police brutality? What fucked up dictatorship did you grow up in to perceive that to be expected, proportional and reasonable behaviour?

LangClegsInSpace · 14/03/2021 21:28

The fact remains that people had a choice. It was clear what the police response was going to be if they did

I don't think that's fair. People had been turning up throughout the day, leaving flowers, taking a moment to silently pay respects, without being at all troubled by the police.

Many attendees will have thought they were attending a quiet, respectful vigil in the evening and would have had no idea that another group were encouraging people to turn up with banners and 'all their rage'.

Dorsetdays · 14/03/2021 21:30

@cranberrries.

I’ve not bashed a single person on here. Quite the reverse in fact as I’ve said people will have different views and interpretations of events.

I simply said you should moderate your posting. MN clearly agree as it’s been removed.

LangClegsInSpace · 14/03/2021 21:31

@thecranberries please read mumsnet's post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4191873-To-be-angry-at-the-frenzy-caused-by-others-last-night?msgid=105555047#105555047

Sparechange · 14/03/2021 21:32

@Dorsetdays

Are you able to clarify about the locations your niece was at last night, and where she saw the violent protesters approach from?

SquirmOfEels · 14/03/2021 21:35

What it needed was 20 female officers standing in solidarity for a few hours while respects were paid and everyone went home

They wouldn't have needed even that. When it was the calm, distanced vigil, there were only 4 police in sight (may have been similar number on the either side)

It was nearly an hour later, when the crowd had swelled, the mind changed, and if you wanted to be at an adequate social distance you needed to be over fifty yards away, because the areas immediately by the bandstand were plain full and impassable, that the police tried to disperse calmly

Why didn't people just move on, or at least move back to restore distancing by giving everyone space to spread out?

Sparechange · 14/03/2021 21:38

@SquirmOfEels

What it needed was 20 female officers standing in solidarity for a few hours while respects were paid and everyone went home

They wouldn't have needed even that. When it was the calm, distanced vigil, there were only 4 police in sight (may have been similar number on the either side)

It was nearly an hour later, when the crowd had swelled, the mind changed, and if you wanted to be at an adequate social distance you needed to be over fifty yards away, because the areas immediately by the bandstand were plain full and impassable, that the police tried to disperse calmly

Why didn't people just move on, or at least move back to restore distancing by giving everyone space to spread out?

Have you not read a single post on here which has an account of what happened? Or the accounts from journalists in the press who were also there?

The police encircled the group and then pushed forward while screaming ‘move back, move out of the area’ and deliberately preventing anyone from moving anywhere other than further forward.

Dorsetdays · 14/03/2021 21:40

@Sparechange. Hi, sorry I don’t. We didn’t discuss exact location, approach etc and I didn’t think to ask. She just said they’d attended earlier in the evening but left when (what she described as) ‘protestors’ arrived and they felt the mood change. Up til then it had been quiet. She said they decided to go home to light a candle instead as felt it was more appropriate.

Dentistlakes · 14/03/2021 21:42

@Sparechange

The fact remains that people had a choice. It was clear what the police response was going to be if they did.

How was it clear? I had no idea the police would decide the best way to respond to one of their own being arrested for a brutal killing would be to all act like thugs when totally unprovoked. Please do share the memo I missed...

People turned up anyway and in my opinion they had the right to do so, but they knew in advance they would be breaking the law by doing so.

Again, weird. Because I’m Friday I read a report from a High Court judge explicitly saying he was unable to rule the gathering would be illegal. Amazing that you have some legal insights that trump those of a high court judge.

That being the case, I don’t understand why people are surprised by the police response. Whether that is right or wrong compared to what they have allowed other groups to do in recent weeks is another matter.

You don’t understand why people are surprised at an act of unprovoked police brutality? What fucked up dictatorship did you grow up in to perceive that to be expected, proportional and reasonable behaviour?

I didn’t say I thought it was a reasonable and proportionate response. I said it was fairly obvious it wouldn’t end well if people did gather. I find it hard to believe people actually thought there would be no trouble. The police response is always disproportionate in similar circumstances. That doesn’t mean I agree with what happened, but it really wasn’t a surprise it ended the way it did. When the police are forced into a corner the result is always ugly as they need to try and demonstrate dominance and control.