To think that if the only black adult in your family says they have experienced racism...

[Overcastcloudy]

... it's counterproductive to send a white man out to say, We're very much not racist?

That just is never going to end well. Ask Ian Murray how it worked out for him.

I couldn't care much either way about the Royal Family. Just baffled at the headline of William saying this.

Harrys claim investigated and both held to account I mean - someone learns why the question wasn’t ok and Harry learns better to talk at the time to the person rather than sit on it for three years and go on TV.

Marmalade he has certainly fed MM what she wanted to hear in terms of their future entitlement etc and the lifestyle he could offer her due to his privilege and he has now sold her short. The consequences of this, their subsequent behaviour, interpretations of events and the way they have decided to address these issues, are not, in my completely unqualified opinion, being driven by Harry (this is where my view now differs to what I wrote yesterday) but by Meghan.

It’s certainly very interesting (and I’m definitely over invested but hey we are in lockdown so I’m allowing myself)

It boils down to this. I, for one, do not want a bunch of unelected representatives foisted on me, who I'm unable to vote out, with the stench of racism hanging over them. On that score Harry isn't innocent either and as for his grandfather, well, Google anything he's on record as saying and that's enough to see that William's remark is demonstrably false. On a global stage it looks appalling, it's extremely bad for diplomacy, and politicians as well as overseas media are turning on us. An unelected Head of State is unfathomable even here, but on the other side of the globe? Why would countries like Canada and Australia be willing to continue with such an antiquated system?

This family's only biracial member has gone on record as saying she experienced racism on a systemic as well as an individual level. In their position you ignore that at your peril. It's so humiliatingly evident that the first thing [some] white people do when a POC says they've experienced racism is to tell them they haven't, or that they are imagining things, or to 'racesplain' it away as what they - who experience their lack of racial privilege every single do - think of as racism not really being racism.

It's very like the cries of NAMALT on platforms where women are (bravely) sharing their experiences of sometimes hideous abuse at the hands of men. And it's sickening. Some vox pop columns are saturated with comments like these, making me see exactly why Eddo-Lodge wrote Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race.

Why, indeed.

NB. I'm well aware of how Australia and America treated their Aboriginal populace. And of the serious issues with racism still ongoing in the US, and of who has or hasn't apologised for their past wrongs. That still doesn't let the UK off the hook.

Lady Davina Windsor (about 30 in line to throne so fairly minor, she's the daughter of Duke of Gloucester) married a Maori lad whose name escapes me. They've 2 kids about 10 I think, forget their names but they're Maori traditional names I think, and sometimes seen at royal events. So Megan isn't first.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

It boils down to this. I, for one, do not want a bunch of unelected representatives foisted on me, who I'm unable to vote out, with the stench of racism hanging over them. On that score Harry isn't innocent either and as for his grandfather, well, Google anything he's on record as saying and that's enough to see that William's remark is demonstrably false. On a global stage it looks appalling, it's extremely bad for diplomacy, and politicians as well as overseas media are turning on us. An unelected Head of State is unfathomable even here, but on the other side of the globe? Why would countries like Canada and Australia be willing to continue with such an antiquated system?

This family's only biracial member has gone on record as saying she experienced racism on a systemic as well as an individual level. In their position you ignore that at your peril. It's so humiliatingly evident that the first thing [some] white people do when a POC says they've experienced racism is to tell them they haven't, or that they are imagining things, or to 'racesplain' it away as what they - who experience their lack of racial privilege every single do - think of as racism not really being racism.

It's very like the cries of NAMALT on platforms where women are (bravely) sharing their experiences of sometimes hideous abuse at the hands of men. And it's sickening. Some vox pop columns are saturated with comments like these, making me see exactly why Eddo-Lodge wrote Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race.

Why, indeed.

Excellent post

And to add, Meghan probably faced both, the denial of sexism by men (notably Piers) and the denial of racism by both white men and women (see this thread for instance)

Also being let down by the twonk she married who didn't explain how irrelevant they are in the set up going forward.

Move sideways before going going down the ranks quickly over the next 10 years as William's children are more focused on by press etc.

Told her it was racism he was being treated differently, when he isn't being treated differently.

@chaosrabbitland

Oh so it's only her that you are prejudiced against and hold the actress occupation against.

Do you honestly truly believe celebrities line up at check-in with their passports at hand? Are you really that gullible? Celebrities of royal/govt status, even the Prime Minister DON'T have their passport on them. Passports and check-in arrangements are handled by courtiers beforehand, Meghan would not have done the check-in line up thus no need for her physical passport in her hand.

It says a lot about how ignorant you are of the process that you truly thought the likes of Meghan or the Prince or Prime Minister actually do check in like we do. They don't, for safety reasons. They do not have physical possession of their passport, that is all pre-organised and pre-stamped/checked.

And yes, if you wanted to see twisted with hatred, look in the mirror.

@CecilyP They were married in the sight of God, legal papers and witnesses are for the government marriage. It is VERY COMMON in Europe and America to have two marriages. I can assure you they consider it ever much of a marriage as the government one. So, not a lie at all.

@Marmaladeagain

Harry is 100% the person to blame - he oversold his future role on offer in royal family. He misrepresents centuries of protocols and the requirement to rev accountable to the public and tells her it is racism.

We all know Charles was going to slim roles down further when he comes to the throne.

Harry is an unimportant member of the family now William has children and the line goes through George.

Harry is the known and proven racist. Harry is the problem.

The bullying claims will be shocking when we hear further. They haven’t been able to deal with the staff accusations whilst Meghan was busy with court and her father’s note that he passed to a paper. The solicitors are now in place and able to take the complaints from the palace about M bullying staff.

Hopefully as more see Harry is the problem and n doesn’t have a clue how irrelevant Harry is in our constitutional moncarchy things will settle down a bit.

They will be irrelevant to U.K and look daft trying to insert themselves still in our affairs. Goodbye Harry.

I do wonder if Meghan naively assumed, based on press coverage, that Kate would be her only competition for the spotlight. And in press terms, she was probably right - bit in terms of rank, she was way off. Based on the Order of Precedence for women, she ranks behind the Queen, Camilla, Sophie, Anne and Kate - and, if she’s not with Harry, behind Beatrice and Eugenie. And in private, behind Princess Alexandra.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_precedence_in_the_United_Kingdom

hey cokie! nice to see you again.... you still haven't yet explained why you can sprinkle Racism dust all over threads and posters.

Have you had time yet since Friday to check your hidden racism notes that puts you in the superior position to tell people their views are racist and why Harry's overt racism isn't?

still waiting...........................

I know, it's just like the army isn't it. Harry didn't tell her she won't be a special princess at all. There's a whole hierarchy ahead of her - especially, as you highlight above, when she is without Harry.

Clearly she wouldn't like it as she hasn't had years to observe the rules and customs and was in no way accepting of them, clearly.

Then H tells her it is because she is mixed - race.

M married the wrong brother, she thought she was marrying someone important and her children would be, they won't, they aren't and it's nothing to do with her being mixed race or H being treated differently.

@Marmaladeagain As has been adequately explained by other posters, Harry has accepted he made mistakes all those many years ago and has changed. Has the royal family, or the racists on here? I don't think so. There's your answer.

[quote Cokie3]@chaosrabbitland

Oh so it's only her that you are prejudiced against and hold the actress occupation against.

Do you honestly truly believe celebrities line up at check-in with their passports at hand? Are you really that gullible? Celebrities of royal/govt status, even the Prime Minister DON'T have their passport on them. Passports and check-in arrangements are handled by courtiers beforehand, Meghan would not have done the check-in line up thus no need for her physical passport in her hand.

It says a lot about how ignorant you are of the process that you truly thought the likes of Meghan or the Prince or Prime Minister actually do check in like we do. They don't, for safety reasons. They do not have physical possession of their passport, that is all pre-organised and pre-stamped/checked.

And yes, if you wanted to see twisted with hatred, look in the mirror.[/quote]
So if all this is standard for government and royalty, why is it such a big deal that she ‘never saw’ her passport again? Why act like it was a desperate attempt to control her every move?

@CecilyP They were married in the sight of God, legal papers and witnesses are for the government marriage. It is VERY COMMON in Europe and America to have two marriages. I can assure you they consider it ever much of a marriage as the government one. So, not a lie at all.

I am well aware that in much of Europe (no idea about America, though I think you can just rock up at the Elvis chapel in Vegas or some such!) you have to have a civil ceremony in addition to the religious one. Yeah, I'm sure they felt married in the eyes of God so they were telling their truth. A church spokesman reckoned it was the rehearsal! Wonder what Justin Welby makes of it all!

@Chewingle

Just reading an article with a pic of MM

Black?

@Chewingle Yes, black. It's not for you to tell Meghan (or any other non-white) what her identity is.

www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-dahleen-glanton-meghan-markle-barack-obama-biracial-20200116-o5ip7lbhf5hxboisnfqr5tby6y-story.html

and

theconversation.com/biracial-britain-why-mixed-race-people-must-be-able-to-decide-their-own-identity-154771

and

thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/7-ridiculous-things-you-should-not-say-to-mixed-race-people/

It says a lot about how ignorant you are of the process that you truly thought the likes of Meghan or the Prince or Prime Minister actually do check in like we do. They don't, for safety reasons. They do not have physical possession of their passport, that is all pre-organised and pre-stamped/checked.

Seems obvious now. But why was Meghan the one complaining that she didn't have access to her passport as if she didn't know why that was.

@StillCoughingandLaughing Perhaps it's because it was part of her narrative of her feeling trapped. Not sure how to word it, haven't had my first glass of coke to wake up properly yet.

Harry hasn't changed his "racism" - he publicly defended it as a "joke".

Also, no-one has said anything on the thread to address the point other than to say : Harry has "learned" .

Is it in that secret code book some of you have - that a known racist marries a black person and then becomes a non-racist? hmmm it certainly seems "hidden" to me that just marrying MM and accusing others of racism makes him non-racist.

There are posts on this thread saying being black or marrying a black person doesn't mean you're not racist' if they haven't accepted everything MM says at face value they too are racist.

Harry has referred to "mistakes". Sorry that's not good enough is it. Very vague. Harry has a history of endless mistakes of all sorts, so we don't know what mistakes and as he wants to throw "racist" around at others he needs to do a lot more than refer to "mistakes".

Harry needs to say who in his family was racist and why he didn't deal with it there and then and clarify why his wife has a completely different version of when the conversation happened. M implies it was about Archie but H clearly said it was "right at the beginning of them getting together". Before an engagement, before a marriage, before a pregnancy. Clarify Harry.

He needs to call out the racism. How pathetic and weak to just do a teenager type wave in a general direction - over there - the bad person is over there - three or four years later (by Harry's version of the timeline).

He hasn't changed - he was sent on courses on why not to say things most of us never, ever considered saying.

You were wrong about UK public school and you clearly don't understand anything at all about UK royal protocols and attribute YOUR lack of knowledge to everyone else being wrong or racist.

Perhaps do a bit of research into the UK royal family and rules and protocols and how it runs more like an army and you might not continue to sound so ill informed.

Having now seen how Harry deals with the issue of racism in his own family, no-one will fall for the whole mental health foundation - it's about them making lots of money, more than they need really. Just greed. Harry doesn't give a shit about anyone in his own family's mental health. Don't buy it and neither do lots of others.

I found Williams response very telling. He aknowledge not speaking to his brother since the interview. He is a privileged white male. He should have said that whilst his family would be mortified to have ever caused offence of that nature, they will look to understand why his brother and sister in law feel that way, and are open to reflecting on what they raise. It's so arrogant that he has shot it down without being open to just listening and seeing if there is anything, even if unconsciously done.

@Chewingle

Just reading an article with a pic of MM

Black?

I find your post disgusting. Let's hear it from the lady herself, shall we?

That sound's like a lovely pre-prepared statement for a press conference, LittleMissMoggy Except William wasn't there to speak to the press. He was leaving an official engagement at a school and the press shouted questions at him which he answered briefly as he carried on his way.

@CecilyP In his job William should be prepared to answer questions from the press, whether at an official press conference or not. If William expected to attend official engagements and not be asked by press (or anyone really) about THE number one royal hot topic at the time, especially given how controversial it is, then he's an idiot. And his staff didn't prep him. In William's shoes I would have foresaw being asked about it and run some scenarios/questions through with my staff to prepare for it.