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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be disgusted with the government and increasingly negative about life in this country.

134 replies

nottherighttime · 07/03/2021 13:37

I'm not sure if it is getting older and having more experience of things not going very well or that politicians seem to have becomes more and more dishonourable and self serving to the extent that many in the current cabinet are happy to tell bare faced lies to the general public and give extremely lucrative contracts to the chums.

I feel that the general public are increasingly manipulated by the very small percentage of super wealthy and privileged inidividuals in power and by the media who act in tandem with them. Johnson really seems to be a master manipulator and liar but still so many seem to think he is doing a good job. Williamson has been beyond incompetent and has made some embarrassing gaffs. Patel has been accused of bullying and there has apparently been a large payout made. Rishi professes to be honest and likes to 'level with us' (and apparently some believe him according to the polls) but has increased taxes for the poor and middle-higher earners but failed to increase capital gains tax or inheritance tax at all which would affect the wealthy and deliberately put a rocket under the housing market pushing the prices up a ridiculous amount and further out of reach of FTB and lower earners/ those without family money. Jenrick has been caught out telling lies on several occasions, the Cummings fiasco, enough said!

The media has served the government's purpose well. They are pitting public sector workers against private sector, furloughed workers against NHS workers asking for more than a 1% pay rise and it is working brilliantly. Instead of all working together and taking collective responsibility for the society we live in there is in-fighting and the wealthy happily taking more and more from people who can't afford housing or food for their children at the lowest end of the scale (and many others in the middle). There seems to be so much more of an 'every man for himself' attitude in more recent decades and less thought for society as a whole.
There is also the lie perpetuated about how there is no money for funding essential services, UC, free school meals, etc but yet there have been billions for track and trace, millions wasted on PPE which was substandard without any apparent thought. The government can create money via the B of E when it suits them and it is a political choice not to fund certain things and to fund others.

Does anyone else feel this way?

OP posts:
MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 07/03/2021 15:44

Some sort of PR would he fairer and more representative I think. There's no system which is absolutely perfect.
Chocolate I'm in Wales. The devolved government does have a significant amount of power, so it's not entirely true to say that we just get what England votes for. And although we have a Labour govt here, there were still plenty of people in Wales who chose to vote Conservative. Mainly (imo) because they were seen as the least worst rather than being actively wanted.
I'd like to see a return to having parties that we actively want in govt, rather than voting being about who you perceive to be the least damaging.

Susie477 · 07/03/2021 15:46

We can’t just blame the Tories for the mess we are in as a country. They are governing in the interests of their rich paymasters, their powerful friends in the media and their retired voter base, which is what they always do.

Labour is also to blame. The party allowed itself to be taken over by a tiny, unrepresentative hard left sect who are obsessed with Palestine but don’t give a fuck about Mansfield Wakefield or Stoke. It saddled itself with a leader who any sensible person always knew was completely unelectable. In December 2019, those people were proved right, and Labour was deservedly obliterated in its former heartlands.

The party has alienated its traditional working class voter base, and views them with undisguised contempt. It prioritises divisive identity politics ahead of representing the economic interests of working people in parliament, which was once its founding purpose.

PersimmonTree · 07/03/2021 15:54

Yanbu at all. Far too many people in the UK see nothing wrong with the status quo and insist on perpetuating our cringeworthy institutions, whether that's parliament (deliberately small p), the monarchy or the British propaganda corporation.

The spirit of reform is being suffocated by a mountain of MSM tripe that most people not only can't ignore, but actively feed.

austenwildfell · 07/03/2021 15:57

Yes, I too despair of politics. I used to like reading the news and listening to Radio 4 for reporting and analysis. Following Current Affairs was a hobby.
But it all seems to be expressed in either very short carefully worded sound bites or made trivial. "to make them accessible". Has the human brain altered so as to not follow an idea for 6 minutes and then concentrate on how that helps some or adds difficulties for others.

When I realised that we had the worst leader Teresa May and the worst leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbyn and the Liberals had faded to insignificance I stopped taking notice.
I have met some of Team Boris and Keir. Nearly everyone I know personally is cleverer than all of them! None of my friends did better than a 2-1 degree.
They are low grade. We have the least worst.
I note the post about France; that is correct from what I know. I think Germany is getting much worse as well.
We are well out of that Union. I cannot think what they will coble up next but it will be a disaster.

duffeldaisy · 07/03/2021 16:00

"I would not be happy about having an extreme right party in parliament."

Well you must be pretty upset now then.
The MPs in charge of the current government are from what was once considered the right-wing fringe of the Conservatives, and all the moderates are gone. Their policies are pretty far to the right. It's just that the Overton window has moved, so they're being portrayed as more moderate than they are. And they've been forced to do things like furloughing, otherwise everything would collapse, so they seem a bit more centrist at the moment. But if you look at what they're doing with money, they're clearly not.

I actually feel quite sorry for some older Conservative voters I know, because the party is even nastier than the one they first started with.

VintageDiamonds · 07/03/2021 16:00

All the time.

There’s no accountability. Just excuses.

Eve · 07/03/2021 16:04

I agree with you, I also despair of the general attitude and lack of critical thinking of so much of the population.

Morgoth · 07/03/2021 16:05

@Susie477

We can’t just blame the Tories for the mess we are in as a country. They are governing in the interests of their rich paymasters, their powerful friends in the media and their retired voter base, which is what they always do.

Labour is also to blame. The party allowed itself to be taken over by a tiny, unrepresentative hard left sect who are obsessed with Palestine but don’t give a fuck about Mansfield Wakefield or Stoke. It saddled itself with a leader who any sensible person always knew was completely unelectable. In December 2019, those people were proved right, and Labour was deservedly obliterated in its former heartlands.

The party has alienated its traditional working class voter base, and views them with undisguised contempt. It prioritises divisive identity politics ahead of representing the economic interests of working people in parliament, which was once its founding purpose.

It’s because class is so fluid now. You can’t separate working class and middle class as easily as you could 50 years ago. Class isn’t correlated to income anymore at all. It’s now aligned more with culture and political alignment. The average national salary of plumbers, mechanics and electricians is higher than the average salary of teachers, scientists and nurses.

Labour and trade unions have continued to fight for improved pay and working conditions for workers whether they are working or middle class. Jeremy corbyn for example has stood on over 500+ picket lines in his career campaigning for miners, factory workers, shop workers, firemen, teachers.

Traditional working class trade or industry jobs are not aligned with traditional working class salaries anymore like they were used to and traditional middle class jobs are certainly not aligned to middle class incomes anymore.

Labour should be representing workers - not the middle class or the working class. We all have to work for a living. The biggest reason over the last decade for voter alignment is more and more working class people entering higher education. Education and age (not income or class) are the biggest factors by far in determining voting preference if you look at the results from the last few general elections.

peak2021 · 07/03/2021 16:08

@Susie477 I agree that the non-opposition Labour Party must take a share of the blame, and felt that the December 2019 election was as much lost by Labour as won by the Conservatives.

Roominmyhouse · 07/03/2021 16:14

It’s utterly depressing.

WorriedMutha · 07/03/2021 16:24

Yep. The media are completely cowed by authority and they have the attention span of a goldfish. Soundbite news 24/7. Headline grabbing with zero research or investigative journalism. This week will be Meghan blah blah. Whilst in the US about 15 years ago I was struck by how shitty and parochial the news was and I thought thank God we've got standards in Britain. Alas no more. Hence politicians are not held to account.

Derrymum123 · 07/03/2021 16:26

Yes. You are right. We get what we deserve unfortunately.

PersimmonTree · 07/03/2021 16:32

However, negativity breeds despair and more negativity.

There are solutions. We can collectively stop the current mob from running rampage over the country by changing the system so it can't keep on happening. By continuing to allow all this corruption, by not asking questions and by not immediately sacking liars like the royal paedo or Cummings as soon as they appear instead of six months later, we are all enabling these outrages.

Why are people not challenging this filth? Stiff upper lip??

Electoral Reform Society, Make Votes Matter, the Republic movement, the Freedom of speech movement: if their memberships were as large as the Daily Fail's readership, we might start to see some positive change.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 07/03/2021 16:34

I also agree OP.

There is a massive increase in division and the blame game at the moment, and while I advocate for people taking personal responsibility to improve their lot in life or at the least avoiding obviously bad decisions, this is becoming exceptionally hard when the system we live under actively puts obstacles in peoples way.

The government and politicians individually do a less than stellar job of leading by example - PPs have covered recent fiascos, and the lack of accountability is astonishing. It entrenches the view that rich people can wriggle out of things because their capital value is worth more than their morals. The only trickle down from that is that those at the bottom of the heap have justifiable resentment compounded and they also take on the attitude of "Every man for himself".

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic or generalising too much, our capitalist system is a free for all for some at the top, but at the bottom there is so much bureaucracy attached to daily life that starting with nothing and working one's way to the top is a Sisyphian task which can see one back at the bottom of the hill on the whims of "the market" or sudden technological advancement. Advocates of personal responsibility and resilience never have an answer to the question how many times should a person flog their dead horse before they realise it really isn't going to win the race. There is sometimes almost an element of magical thinking or belief in "manifestation" if every avenue taken turns out to be a dead end.

Much is made of the virtues of hard work regardless of reward, for ones own self esteem and pride, but if you still end your life poor, cold, hungry and at the mercy of the state, it's still apparently your own fault, and I do wonder if that internal glow is truly enough.

I agree with the idea a PP had above regarding career politicians who have never really lived or worked outside the sphere. I have said before that while I was growing up and becoming aware of politics, (I'm 52) I remember most politicians were older people who had come to their parties after or during careers in the real world. They weren't necessarily glossy and well-presented. They stood up for the values of their parties and were often controversial, but from my memory weren't as apparently self serving as some are today. There was an episode of Black Mirror about a career politician who just switched parties to keep their career on track - nothing to do with their beliefs or principles, just determination to survive in their chosen sphere regardless of the wider implications. While I accept one shouldn't accept fiction as fact, the resonance was definitely there for me.

It is little wonder that conspiracy theories flourish in this febrile climate around government actions and policies - during this pandemic, as others have mentioned, there have been numerous questionable actions across the board - PPE contracts, Track and Trace fiasco etc etc. The one time that politicians and policy makers had an opportunity handed to them by the quirks of nature and fate to truly show a united front and bring the populace into the fold, they have failed spectacularly.

I started a thread about the chap recently profiled in the Guardian who got a bonus equivalent to earning £1 million a day in the financial sector - yes he is a philanthropist who has donated to charity and invested in Extinction Rebellion (which is another can of worms altogether) but the fact that moving money from one place to another is rewarded so generously, while HCPs and nurses who actively save lives and do a hard, dirty and emotionally taxing job are being offered a paltry 1% pay rise, after being applauded as frontline fighters against Covid, really highlights how rotten and inequitable our country has become.

Last time I looked on that thread, it was mentioned how he would have had to pay 40 - 50% tax on his income at that level. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe that there are many, many ways to minimise ones tax bill if you have that amount of money. Shell companies, off shore accounts, investments etc. And if influential people, perhaps in government, are your shareholders and investors and directors, perhaps you have an advantage that can be exploited legally through perfectly legal loopholes.

As automation and online trading move on apace, those at the lower end of society and unable to keep up will find themselves forced into working more and more for big companies which will grow, and which are often all part of a bigger umbrella corporation. Certain dystopian films are starting to look more and more like a road map for the future. The high street is in its death throes, profit maximisation for the benefit of those at the top is the primary goal, and the rest of us run round like dutiful little worker ants supposed to be grateful for any crumbs of assistance thrown at them.

And so I come to my final issue - the benefits system, supposedly a safety net and not designed as a lifestyle choice. The number of people committing actual fraud is tiny in comparison to benefits unclaimed. The system is overly bureaucratic, subject to changes not well explained or publicised and can trap people in it. It penalises the disabled horrifically, and the outsourcing of some aspects to private companies was just a recipe for disaster as has been proven by people being declared fit for work when they are dying or even dead. And again, little accountability.

Most people do want to work, feel productive, contribute - as jobs become more precarious working one's way up becomes again, Sisyphean task. The toll of this on mental health contributes to rising numbers of those unable to work, not unwilling, just unable.

If you tell people they are "entitled to benefits" and they apply, telling them off for it is like offering a child an ice cream and telling them off for accepting it - which would be considered child abuse by most. I in no way mean to infantilise people by using that analogy, but psychologically battering people with conflicting messages and offering support that is not fit for purpose - outdated, outsourced "training programmes" with no guarantee of self-improvement will leave people feeling defeated and paralysed.

Sorry about the rant, TLDR you're right OP.

HarrietPierce · 07/03/2021 16:38

Chocolatedeficitdisorder Sun 07-Mar-21 14:54:41
I am sooo proud to be British the way we have managed this pandemic makes me feel full of pride!

You are joking aren't you?

Please tell me that you're joking!

Either this or on glue !

colouringindoors · 07/03/2021 16:39

YADNBU OP

And it's perpetuated by our media due to it's ownership.

I so struggle to understand why the Tories are still well ahead in the polls. Every day it's something else shit and/or corrupt. £2.6 million on a new media room - is it gold plated??? Patel bullying. Williamson and Grayling incompetence and money-wasting. Privatising the NHS. I could go on.

As a parent I find it massively depressing.

hayley037 · 07/03/2021 16:43

Unfortunately it's rooted in the feudal/class system we have here.

FPTP makes it easy for those at the top end of society to keep this system in place and ensure there is no real redistribution of wealth beyond what we have now.

End of the day the majority of people now vote based on emotion rather than what will make a fairer society. Populism and jingoism is an easy tool for the right-wing to ensure 35-40% of voters turn out for them. A vast majority of people don't seem to mind voting against their own self interest as long as there is someone worse off than themselves to look down on.

SenecaTrewe · 07/03/2021 17:25

This is capitalism.

wanderings · 07/03/2021 17:42

YANBU at all. It is just awful; and what is worse is that we expect it.
Politicians lie.
We know they lie.
They know we know they lie.
And yet, we just keep on accepting it.

Parliament is full of liars and rogues, such as Johnson himself, because we tolerate them. With Cummings, we just shrugged and said "it's what they do". We should have been furious. The government should have been afraid that we would retaliate by mass rule-breaking. But that didn't happen; they have us too well-trained. I've just been told "seriously, let it go" on another thread: we SHOULDN'T be letting stuff like this go. If we do, we are encouraging it.

Tony Blair got away with mass murder, on the basis of a massive lie. If the rest of us can be sent to prison for lying about who was driving a car caught speeding, then he should be facing an extremely long prison sentence. He awarded himself a 50% pay rise the day after he was re-elected. He played the system very much to his advantage. He took his children on holiday at the same time as his government was "cracking down" on parents who did likewise.

And the spin. It is absolutely terrifying the way the public accepted this government stomping all over our liberties in one gulp, without a shred of resistance; and that we're STILL lying down and taking it, nearly a year on.

And all politicians should spend at least three years in a modestly-paid, customer-facing job, before going anywhere near Parliament. Too many of them are born into wealthy family -> private school -> Oxbridge -> Parliament, without setting so much as a toe in the world the rest of us live in.

Eleganz · 07/03/2021 17:42

[quote ILoveAllRainbowsx]First past the post has its problems, but at least you don't get the extreme right and left as you do in Europe.

I would not be happy about having an extreme right party in parliament.

Just read what what is happening to the Syrian people in Denmark because of their extreme right parties:

www.arabnews.com/node/1818596/middle-east[/quote]
Instead we just get entryism into he mainstream parties. It happened with Labour and the Tories, the latter having absorbed many ex-UKIP and BNP people.

ChameleonClara · 07/03/2021 17:45

Have been discussing exactly this recently, the way this pandemic has been handled has really got to me.

Young people need to beg their parents to stop voting Conservative, they really are the pits.

Echobelly · 07/03/2021 17:50

I'm depressed that politics is drifting towards a Trumpian/UKIP style approach of prioritising making life horrible for the people your supporters don't like over improving things for anyone. It's much easier to achieve, after all - and inevitably 'the people your supporters don't like' are the most vulnerable: single mums, poor people, migrants, queer people etc. Anyone made a scapegoat for other things. It's morally bankrupt and incredibly bad for societies and economies.

Sapho47 · 07/03/2021 18:07

deliberately put a rocket under the housing market pushing the prices up a ridiculous amount and further out of reach of FTB and lower earners/ those without family money

Or more importantly its preventing a lot of people, who may be struggling with their mortgage after covid, from being in negative equity.

There's a lot of people who would be ruined if house values dropped and they couldn't keep up with the mortgage.

Also it would have a terrible knock on effect for the economy.

Its not so simple as evil rich people like you want it to be.

Sapho47 · 07/03/2021 18:10

@wanderings

YANBU at all. It is just awful; and what is worse is that we expect it. Politicians lie. We know they lie. They know we know they lie. And yet, we just keep on accepting it.

Parliament is full of liars and rogues, such as Johnson himself, because we tolerate them. With Cummings, we just shrugged and said "it's what they do". We should have been furious. The government should have been afraid that we would retaliate by mass rule-breaking. But that didn't happen; they have us too well-trained. I've just been told "seriously, let it go" on another thread: we SHOULDN'T be letting stuff like this go. If we do, we are encouraging it.

Tony Blair got away with mass murder, on the basis of a massive lie. If the rest of us can be sent to prison for lying about who was driving a car caught speeding, then he should be facing an extremely long prison sentence. He awarded himself a 50% pay rise the day after he was re-elected. He played the system very much to his advantage. He took his children on holiday at the same time as his government was "cracking down" on parents who did likewise.

And the spin. It is absolutely terrifying the way the public accepted this government stomping all over our liberties in one gulp, without a shred of resistance; and that we're STILL lying down and taking it, nearly a year on.

And all politicians should spend at least three years in a modestly-paid, customer-facing job, before going anywhere near Parliament. Too many of them are born into wealthy family -> private school -> Oxbridge -> Parliament, without setting so much as a toe in the world the rest of us live in.

So go pmfirebomb your local mps office.

Or is this call for mass revolution something other people should do?

Cuppaza · 07/03/2021 18:10

@nottherighttime totally agree