Do you WANT longer school days and shorter school holidays?

[shadowlily]

YABU- yes I want schools to have longer school days and shorter holidays

YANBU- no I'd rather keep the hours/terms we have.

I keep seeing this is being discussed in the media today, do you think it's likely to happen? Personally I think kids would benefit more from the summer holiday and being able to catch up on the activities they've missed and socialisation with friends. They've been home schooled to keep up with the curriculum (for the most part! I know this might be a contentious statement for some!) but nothing has replaced the play dates, day trips, parties etc. they have missed.

What do you think?

We have some of the shortest holidays already if you cut them down further the struggle for annual leave means significant numbers of families won’t be able to get away. Not everyone can afford to fly somewhere warm in October.

There are large numbers of out of school providers worried about their future with staff on furlough and I suspect some will go under if they haven’t done already. We could do amazing things - subsided, low cost or free instead. Summer schools with lots of different activities on offer - think music/crafts/drama/sport/forest school/dance/PE/coding etc. even days out. You could add in small amounts of catch up for those that need it - especially reading. Look at developing those soft but vital skills instead - communication, socialising, resilience. My DDs would love that - choosing activities with their friends. (I’d love the lack of mess.) It would help solve childcare issues and help out a vital sector of the economy at the same time.

Nope. As any teacher already knows, they are knackered by the end of half term, concentration falls in the afternoons and they need to shorter days and the breaks.

And as most parents are surely aware, primary kids are on their knees at the end of the day, especially R and ks1. They need to be at home, having a snack and a play.

It's also the sole remaining positive chunk of the job apart from the kids themselves.

Seems to be marsha. The government media machine seem to already have The Times on the case. It is all part of their so called 'levelling up agenda' : interestingly a departed DfE civil servant said this week that they had actually scrapped focus on the disadvantaged at the DfE about 4 years ago and decided to focus on pushing MATs

I think, yet again, we can't really conflate primary and secondary here : an hour after school (if it finished at about 2 ?) at primary running about , having fun, doing some drama or music might be great for primary. It would need a big step change at secondary and a whole societal change in how we view schools. It happens in many European countries but their school days are massively different, as is their timetabling. They also have long summer holidays.

The holiday industry must have been so pissed off this morning when Gav tried to sell the idea by suggesting we'd all get cheaper holidays !! (because that's why you embark on a huge cultural shift in educational policy....)

Children need time to complete the extra curricular stuff they WANT to do out of school hours and also eat dinner, do homework, see family.

The holiday industry would have a fit.... there wouldn’t be enough holidays and prices would rocket... how will employers cope with holiday requests and how would people get childcare?!?

What I would be supportive of in the longer term is the secondary academic school day finishing earlier - perhaps around 2:30 - and then having extra-curricular activities such as sport, music or art until 4:00. These don't necessarily have to be taught by teachers.

Not only would the students benefit from a wider range of subjects, but it would be better for their circadian rhythms. DD really struggles with having maths as her last lesson twice a week as she finds it hard to concentrate.

@Piggywaspushed

The holiday industry must have been so pissed off this morning when Gav tried to sell the idea by suggesting we'd all get cheaper holidays !! (because that's why you embark on a huge cultural shift in educational policy....)

As a teacher of 20 years, I’ve only been able to go abroad in August. I am very much looking forward to cheaper holidays if we shift to 5 terms! Bring on ‘off peak’ prices!

They don't generally complain in the US either mother where they ahve the long tradition of summer camp. Nothing to do with schools at all.

I think that's be perfect. * week summer hols with summer camps/volunteering/summer schools run by unis etc.

I would like the homework to be in school after school and the teachers to Mark in that time as well so when children do go home they are completely free of school .

If there were different holidays then parents should be able to take children out for 2 weeks of the year so they can enjoy cheaper off peak holidays .

@Piggywaspushed

Seems to be marsha. The government media machine seem to already have The Times on the case. It is all part of their so called 'levelling up agenda' : interestingly a departed DfE civil servant said this week that they had actually scrapped focus on the disadvantaged at the DfE about 4 years ago and decided to focus on pushing MATs

I think, yet again, we can't really conflate primary and secondary here : an hour after school (if it finished at about 2 ?) at primary running about , having fun, doing some drama or music might be great for primary. It would need a big step change at secondary and a whole societal change in how we view schools. It happens in many European countries but their school days are massively different, as is their timetabling. They also have long summer holidays.

Oh I had missed they would finish at 2. Yes it does sound more European.

I feel a bit sceptical about announcements on change like this because sometimes it’s just an idea from a think tank that gets picked up by media. I haven’t really followed this admittedly.

My sister in law spent a summer in the US and worked in a summer camp when she was at Uni. She loved it!

Talking of circadian rhythms, there six a whole bunch of thinking that says the school day for teenagers should begin later! Wellington College (private school so it can) has been starting lessons at , I think, 10.30 am for some time now.

@Hollyhead

Longer school day definitely although not all taught - I would take PE out of the school teaching day and have PE for all children 3.30-4.30pm most days a week. Doesn’t all have to be delivered by a qualified teacher - just responsible adults who can get them running around and moving.

What do the PE teachers do for a living then?

You'd need 'responsible adults' with qualifications in PE. Able to plan lessons. Able to adapt lessons to allow for disabilities, physical development, interests. Able to maintain discipline. First Aid qualifications. Safeguarding training. Able to motivate reluctant participants. Able to teach rules, techniques, health and safety, tactics. Able to access medical information about students. Able to communicate with teaching, admin and pastoral staff. Able to ensure that all students achieve what is expected of them at their stage of education.

That's a lot to recruit for just a couple of hours in the afternoon.

Seems like it would be better to just stick with the ones they already have - the PE teachers.

No, not at all. I’d be happy with a few days less at Easter and a longer Christmas break but don’t want longer days or less holidays. They are young and responsibility free for such a few years they need that time off just to be children.

It depends and has to be evidenced based, so it isn’t applicable to all and is of a temporary nature.

Where a child has really struggled to keep up with the work and learning, yes - It’s in their interests. However, where there hasn’t been an academic detriment, then no.

Absolutely not.

I love the 6 weeks holidays, me and the dcs relax properly, do sports, see family and friends. I'd prefer it if it started beginning of July and finished mid August tho, august weather is usually worse than July.

And I don't want a longer school day either. Ds 7 is knackered by 3pm in winter, and in the summer we like to do things after school. Allotment, ponies, watersports. I know we are lucky to have these but other families do similar things, even if it's just the park or football or bile rides.

Dd is 6th form now and tbh has quite a fee periods each week so they obviously aren't stuggling to deliver the curriculum. Or if they are a longer school day won't maoe much difference.

I do think more after school clubs for sports or arts should be available tho, dd seemed to have something available every night at primary. Ds has had nothing so far I don't think.

@Piggywaspushed

Talking of circadian rhythms, there six a whole bunch of thinking that says the school day for teenagers should begin later! Wellington College (private school so it can) has been starting lessons at , I think, 10.30 am for some time now.

Yep I can agree with that!

I think it is from a think tank (or Gove/ Cummings, lurking). Gavin seems very susceptible to them ,possibly because he has no independent power of thought !

@Andbearsohmy sums it up beautifully! My year 1 class are shattered by lunchtime let alone making the day longer!! Children are not vessels into which we pour 'learning'. Learning doesn't work like that! Children need time to unwind, play, process in an unstructured fashion. Not doing managed additional activities after school.

I had some CPD once from a singing teacher in a music school with boarders. He said that the time between 4-6 was dead time. They had to stop trying to teach in those hours because the pupils are brain dead, hungry and can't concentrate.

They worked around it by having rest and food and then starting choir practise at 6.

That's not going to work for anyone else is it? And those were teenagers with a passion for music. Primary school children have no chance of learning beyond 3pm.

@Theluggage15 totally agree

No. It would be yet another way that the government would be screwing us over completely.

And children should never have been kept out of school for so long anyway.

How come it's not possible to vote on here?

The irony of what yous ay struck me highland. Our sixth formers have a lot of free time too which they waste. One of the main reasons for this in state schools is woeful funding of post 16, which led to curriculum time being reduced (10 lessons per fortnight to 9) so that enough teachers could be afforded to staff the curriculum school wide.

Extra time after school really will not equate to more curriculum time without extensive funding.

It won't happen , the government will not invest that amount of money in schools to pay the increased salaries, the extra resources needed or the extra energy bills.