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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you WANT longer school days and shorter school holidays?

780 replies

shadowlily · 07/03/2021 12:49

YABU- yes I want schools to have longer school days and shorter holidays

YANBU- no I'd rather keep the hours/terms we have.

I keep seeing this is being discussed in the media today, do you think it's likely to happen? Personally I think kids would benefit more from the summer holiday and being able to catch up on the activities they've missed and socialisation with friends. They've been home schooled to keep up with the curriculum (for the most part! I know this might be a contentious statement for some!) but nothing has replaced the play dates, day trips, parties etc. they have missed.

What do you think?

OP posts:
StripyHorse · 07/03/2021 16:38

Longer days would perhaps mean something has to be done with teacher workload.

Another hour per day would mean 5 more hours per week to plan for, and another 5 lessons worth of marking but 5 hours fewer per week in which to do it.

That's before you factor in staff meetings, parents' evenings, fundraising events, school concerts and all the other things that teachers have to do.

Or nothing will be done and teachers will be even more stressed and run down.

LondonJax · 07/03/2021 16:38

So not seeing their friends has contributed to mental health issues but the way around that is to increase the time they're sitting in a classroom, decrease the time they can be kids and hang around the parks/mates houses/with family in the summer and impact on all those after school clubs?

After all, if you're doing your science class from 4pm to 5pm, then have a 40 minutes bus ride and a walk home then homework, when do you get the chance to do Scouts/Guides/Football/Gymnastics or the rest? When do you get the chance to even play a game on line with mates before dinner and bed?

Our kids have been brilliant during all of this. Our schools have, for the most part, done amazing work and are now setting themselves up as NHS testing stations with kids masked up all day. And your reward student and teachers etc? Work through your holiday and add another couple of hours to your working day.

Plus, what about the kids who have done OK or even well during lockdowns? What about the ones who haven't fallen behind because they were lucky with internet/help/attitude or whatever? Do they give up their evenings and holiday time too. Not a boast, just an example here - our DS hasn't scored below 80% in all his assessments since September. So he's got to give up his holidays because??? He goes over old work for what? And if he doesn't have to give up the holidays or work late because he's doing OK what message does that send to his friends who haven't been able to keep up for whatever reason?

Quite apart from the fact that the teachers and support staff are contracted to work so many hours per year. To change those terms would mean a lot of consultation or a lot of money being thrown at the problem.

I think it's a clever way of Gove getting what he proposed years ago - call me a cynic if you like.

saltandpepperchickenandchips · 07/03/2021 16:39

No to a longer school as this would impact in activities and tutoring

Yes to shorter holidays especially summer. There’s no need for almost 7 weeks off.

NovemberR · 07/03/2021 16:40

@Frozenintime

Reduce summer holidays to 4 weeks and maybe a week at Easter. Leave school day as it is for extra curricular activities
Are you paying all school staff almost another month's salary?

Deciding that school staff - teachers, TAs, lunch supervisors, caretakers, office staff, etc, etc - will work another three weeks of the year will have an incredible financial cost to it.

According the the ONS, in Nov 2019 there were 945,805 people working in schools in the UK.

If you say that 3 weeks salary equates to £1,000 average (which it doesn't - it will be far higher) then that is a BILLION pounds.

Anyone actually think that Gavin has done the maths on this?

I'm sure @noblegiraffe could provide a much more accurate figure than me - I scraped my way to a very poor Maths O level many years ago - but even a vague estimate of the money involved shows that it is laughably unlikely that they will reduce school holidays.

Borka · 07/03/2021 16:40

No, definitely not.

Sorefret · 07/03/2021 16:41

No, absolutely not. Kids have missed school and school work but they've also missed hanging out with friends, seeing grandparents, going to the beach, playing sport etc etc, they need time to catch up on that too.

GingerAndTheBiscuits · 07/03/2021 16:42

@MarshaBradyo

Can you imagine seeing over your mum's shoulder that she wishes school days were longer and holidays shorter?

This is a bit silly. Some people actually work with only four / five weeks holiday and use childcare already.

Exactly. Statutory leave is 20 days plus bank holidays. For those who only get the minimum, with two working parents, you basically either never get time off together as you need to cover holidays, or you have to pay someone else to look after your children so it’s hardly quality family time.
IWantMyHoney · 07/03/2021 16:43

It's a no from me to both

BelleSausage · 07/03/2021 16:47

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

So it’s not about child well being or their education but yet again about pumping extra childcare out of the system?

If that is the case then at least be honest about it. Don’t dress it up in terms of child welfare- it won’t be good for child mental health or physical health or education.

Inertia · 07/03/2021 16:47

Rearranging the existing holidays/ term dates could be considered- the children are exhausted by 2 lots of 7-8 week half-terms in the autumn, and the best weather is usually in June and July, when it’s far too hot for children to concentrate. Something approaching 4 quarters , each spilt into two half-terms (rather than 3 very unequal terms), with the longest holiday in June/July, might work. (Side note- isn’t it 190 pupil days and 195 teacher days in school?)

This shouldn’t be an argument centred on what’s easiest in terms of childcare- that’s certainly problematic, but the government should focus on improving childcare options. The benefit to the children must be the central focus, and most children are already tired by the end of the afternoon, and approaching the end of term. And it’s likely that the children who are furthest behind age-related expections, perhaps because of additional needs , are going to be the children who are least able to cope with the demands of an even more exhausting schedule.

The things that would help improve learning outcomes for children most in need of support would cost money, and are not idealogically acceptable to a Tory government. Children with additional needs should have their provision fully funded, funding should be made available for TAs, class sizes should be reduced, budgets should cover the teaching and learning resources needed. All of this would help to close the learning gaps.

Countries with the most successful learning outcomes have systems which are totally different from the UK education system, but governments never seem to want to consider options such as removing all private education, small class sizes, starting school at 7yo or giving teachers more autonomy.

Children need time after school to do other activities of their choice - sport, music, clubs, art, playing with friends, being outside.

Sh05 · 07/03/2021 16:47

Definitely no for longer days at school. Not everyone just larks around after 3:30. Our children have other daily commitments after school that have nothing to do with school. I am not going to sacrifice them for longer days.

Christmasfairy2020 · 07/03/2021 16:47

As a working parent I get 2 weeks of in August and then basically its pass the parcel with the kids. I think 3 weeks of and thats it

BelleSausage · 07/03/2021 16:48

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

The answer is more flexibility from employers. What you are asking for is for the government to subsidise poor employment practises so companies don’t have to give decent holiday entitlement. I don’t support that as a use of my tax money.

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2021 16:50

[quote BelleSausage]@GingerAndTheBiscuits

So it’s not about child well being or their education but yet again about pumping extra childcare out of the system?

If that is the case then at least be honest about it. Don’t dress it up in terms of child welfare- it won’t be good for child mental health or physical health or education.[/quote]
No it’s not that. It’s more the emotional pull of saying imagine if your child saw this. For many who work ft it’s a reality to get four or five weeks off already,

I’ve worked ft and paid for cc. I don’t particularly want more school. Even more I don’t believe there’s more money there to pay for it so it won’t happen.

But no one (esp a mother who usually gets the guilt part landed at them) should feel they are letting their dc down by working full time hours, which is the norm for many mothers.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 07/03/2021 16:52

@Christmasfairy2020

As a working parent I get 2 weeks of in August and then basically its pass the parcel with the kids. I think 3 weeks of and thats it
It's not about childcare, it's about what's best for children. I'm also a working parent and I only get one week off in the summer holidays but the answer is not more school.
MildredPuppy · 07/03/2021 16:52

from my work perspective i'd like it as i get paid hourly in school admin and could do with a few more hours.
I wouldn't like it from my children's perspective.

Rollmopsrule · 07/03/2021 16:52

I'd like to see secondary school days longer so more like 9 am till 5pm but the kids get a proper lunch hour. Dc currently have a 40 min lunch break so they tend not to bother with the lunch sports clubs as there just isn't enough time. Maybe take a week off the summer school hols.

BelleSausage · 07/03/2021 16:54

@MarshaBradyo

I agree that comment was in poor taste to put the pressure on mothers. The fault is ultimately with both work culture and employment law.

It is all well and good for the government to want both parents in full time work. But the pressure is almost always passed on to the woman.

If they want everyone to work them they need to come up with a good care solution that works for both parents and kids. This suggestion is not it.

TillyFloss10 · 07/03/2021 16:56

They wont be able to do it in time for the summer holidays this year. All staff would need new contracts and extra pay, new cleaning contracts to cover the extra weeks, new catering contracts to cover the extra weeks and more Money for an increase in use of utilities, resources etc, building work that was planned to take place would have to be rearranged.
The money needed would be in the Billions.

Onlinedilema · 07/03/2021 16:57

Who will pay for it all?

zoemum2006 · 07/03/2021 16:57

Nope. Summer holidays are too short. I’d like 8 weeks away from academics (maybe more investment in holiday schemes that were creative or sporty).

Redlocks28 · 07/03/2021 17:00

@Christmasfairy2020

As a working parent I get 2 weeks of in August and then basically its pass the parcel with the kids. I think 3 weeks of and thats it
I don’t want kids to lose half their summer holidays forever because some parents need childcare!

The solution is better childcare solutions for those who need it, not more compulsory school!!

Awalkintime · 07/03/2021 17:02

No way - 1 hour delivery does not = 1 hour extra working time for teachers. It makes about 2 or 3 more hours.

Currently finish work at 11-12pm. Get up at 4am.

Add on 2 or 3 hours. I might manage 1 or 2 hours sleep.

bananamonster · 07/03/2021 17:03

"The solution is better childcare solutions for those who need it, not more compulsory school!"

This.

TheLongDark · 07/03/2021 17:03

The UK has the same (6 weeks, Denmark, Germany, UK) or shorter (Sweden 10 weeks, Norway 8 weeks, France 8 weeks) than most EU countries for Summer holidays. We only get 7 weeks once every 4 years so its tiresome to keep seeing that trotted out.

Oh and our kids start school at 4/5 yrs old not 7 as in many other countries with much better education systems than ours.

The school day here isn't so different.
8:30am-4pm is fairly standard. Some schools have shortened lunchtime to finish a little earlier
Maybe nursery and P1 is 9am-2pm in some places but there are very few secondary schools running on those hours.

At the moment virtually all after school activities that are run by teachers are done for free (yes really).

PE isn't just 'running about' its a fairly academic subject at GCSE/N5 level and above.

Maybe one of these days parents will start to actually
a) take some responsibility for getting their own kids 'moving about' and
b) want them to get some down time to actually be kids rather than think up ways they can spend more and more time in school (for free preferably it seems - free after school care, free clubs, free activities)

Jesus christ people, your kids have spent the better part of a year locked up inside due to Covid and you want them to spend MORE time stuck in a building doing school work???
Don't you want to be able to finally go see your family and friends, let your kids enjoy some stuff that's not yet more school work, let them have fun with friends?

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