Aibu to think master’s loans criteria should change?

[CaptainVanesHair]

Full disclosure, I already have an MA, paid for by me.

There’s an MA I would love to do now that would be totally possible with an MA loan. But you can’t apply if you already have one.

Isn’t this shortsighted? Masters are a great way to retrain and if they changed the criteria, it would help a lot of people.

Unis are crying out for students, surely a change to: you can have one loan for an MA/MSc makes sense? The government are talking about helping people to change careers etc so I’m just musing on this tonight. Obviously it can only be once, lest people become career students.

Devil’s advocate, I know that having a postgraduate education is a privilege and that plays into it, but I don’t think the same criteria applies to undergrads as I had mature students on my course who had a degree and then went on to do a second with a student loan.

YABU - if you have one postgrad degree, you don’t need another
YANBU - everyone should be entitled to a single
postgraduate student loan

Generally speaking, a masters degree doesn't lead to enhanced earning power (except in the USA where they have a different HE setup).

To be honest it's pretty generous for the taxpayer to pay towards a first MA or MSc, let alone a repeat.

Yes, I do agree with that. And in my case that’s especially relevant and I’ll figuring something else out.

I guess I was thinking less in terms of earning potential and more in career moves/retraining.

Knowing me if I could get further PG loans I probably would end up being an eternal student and never getting a job!

Just to clarify - you can only get funding for a second undergraduate degree if it is part time in a STEM subject or if it is a some of the NHS courses like Nursing etc, I think.

Also a bit confused as your two poll options seem to be kind of saying the same thing?

I think only useful to industry masters should be funded - teaching / medical or nursing conversion courses / cybersecurity etc etc. Otherwise we’d have loads of 20-something bankers flooding the system to take up their ‘free’ mba.

I think the government should be helping people who are unemployed/at risk of unemployment retrain for available work, yes. I think they should subsidise retraining into key worker roles with a recruitment crisis as well. I don’t think they should be subsidising people, who’ve already had far more education than the average person, to have more or to change career solely because they want to or they’d just love to do this other masters. I guess I’m just not convinced funding loans for masters degrees is the best way of helping people retrain.

@GrumpyHoonMain

I think only useful to industry masters should be funded - teaching / medical or nursing conversion courses / cybersecurity etc etc. Otherwise we’d have loads of 20-something bankers flooding the system to take up their ‘free’ mba.

There are already hoards of 20-somethings flooding the system to take up bursaries for teaching shortage subjects with no intention of actually teaching at the end of it.

@CarrieBlue - yes but the bankers who do mbas do so privately at the moment at a point in their careers they earn enough to fund it (or their company deems them valuable enough to fund). I imagine if it was available for free the education system would get flooded by even more junior or perhaps unrelated staff who might not stay in the banking (or indeed any!) industry long enough to be in a position to use what they learn.

It sounds like pure, entitled self indulgence.

If you wish to collect degrees instead of working that's fine but you need to pay the full costs yourself.

@MyopiaUtopia

Also a bit confused as your two poll options seem to be kind of saying the same thing?

Ah! In the first one I meant if you’ve already self-funded one before the loans came in.

No but I disagree with the loan service for all degrees as too easy to not pay them back which I personally feel is very wrong.

YABU. You’ve already got a postgrad, pay for it yourself. It’s not the job of the state to keep layering qualifications on you until you find what you enjoy doing, or earn ever more.

The state can’t really afford to put everyone who wants an undergrad degree through it- the state certainly can’t afford to keep shelling out giving loans to people who already have MAs. YABU.

God this country loves a race to the bottom doesn't it.

@Daphnise

It sounds like pure, entitled self indulgence.

If you wish to collect degrees instead of working that's fine but you need to pay the full costs yourself.

There’d absolutely be the danger of this, and I don’t apply it to the situation I’m in and am non-plussed about not being entitled for myself. It is what it is and, if I can, I’ll pay for any further education I do for myself and I think most people would have the self-awareness to know the difference between ‘self-indulgent’ and ‘necessary.’ And I’d also assume that a high percentage would carry on working, like I did and would, while studying just like with any course.

So I definitely wasn’t thinking in terms of ‘collecting degrees’ - it was a thought that it could be an option for those that need to retrain, perhaps with subject limits like PPs have suggested, and/or a certain amount of time passed. Perhaps even a caveat that it has to be in a significantly different area to any other education you have.

But maybe self indulgent collecting is all it would end up being.

I agree with you OP. Everybody should be entitled to one PG loan, same as everyone is entitled to one UG loan.
With the current system you could be sitting on millions of pounds in the bank, and still get a loan for a Masters so long as it’s your first.

Meanwhile a person who scrimped and saved to pay for a masters, was made redundant and now wants to re-train can’t get a loan because they already have one.

No logic at all.

@VestaTilley

YABU. You’ve already got a postgrad, pay for it yourself. It’s not the job of the state to keep layering qualifications on you until you find what you enjoy doing, or earn ever more.

The state can’t really afford to put everyone who wants an undergrad degree through it- the state certainly can’t afford to keep shelling out giving loans to people who already have MAs. YABU.

That’s really not what I meant - I’ve already said that this doesn’t apply to my situation, and I didn’t expect to be entitled to anything either. I was just surprised that it was a blanket when it IS a viable option for some career changes.

How is it a race to the bottom? There’s not exactly unlimited government money going round at the moment. I’d rather it went on improving education for children (especially disadvantaged children and those with SEN) and access to lower cost retraining options for people who actually need to and can’t afford it. People who haven’t already had the opportunities OP has had, regardless of who paid for it. OP already has well above average education levels, says they can figure something out to pay for it themselves and appears to want rather than need to retrain/do another masters. Why would subsidising her be a government priority at this time?

I think a lot of posters don’t realise that you arenmt asking for MULTIPLE PG loans, just that everyone should be entitled to ONE.

@Nebulacoffee

I agree with you OP. Everybody should be entitled to one PG loan, same as everyone is entitled to one UG loan. With the current system you could be sitting on millions of pounds in the bank, and still get a loan for a Masters so long as it’s your first.

Meanwhile a person who scrimped and saved to pay for a masters, was made redundant and now wants to re-train can’t get a loan because they already have one.

No logic at all.

I hadn’t even thought of that but they’re not means tested are they? So it’s very different anyway. Even if it was just that the course fees were available.

Many Unis have negotiable easy payment terms for part time study (e.g 20 payments spread over a two year part time course). Could this be an option OP?

You’d just encourage people to collect qualifications. It’s easily done, I used to do it. My imposter syndrome means I find it easy to study to procrastinate and avoid anything that could be classed as “failure”...

And DH has a self funded master that he’s not done a lot with, and he’d also admit that he’d happily study for another one; and get stuck in studying.

One masters is enough, really. You can usually show transferable skills for another job, and most jobs in the U.K. don’t seem to really value that level of education anyway.

Some people really RESENT others getting an education don’t they??
Postgraduate education is about research and expanding knowledge. I did my postgrad researching how to improve teaching children with hearing impairments. My sister did hers in better ways to dispose of waste in environmentally friendly ways.
Further education builds knowledge that benefits everyone!!

I should have been clearer in the OP about my situation.

I don’t want a loan for myself. It merely got me thinking that at a time when government funding is needed for some people who want to retrain and may have for a masters from say ten, twenty years ago and a masters would be an option, perhaps the criteria could be revisited.

I scrimped and saved and bought my first house before first time buyer subsidies/stamp duty reductions were a thing. I’ve seen this really lovely new house I like the look of and since I didn’t get my subsidy on my first house I think I should be entitled to the stamp duty reduction on this one instead. After all government wants to help people into the housing market. Sound reasonable? Everyone should be entitled to one subsidised house?

You win some, you lose some. Government is trying to encourage certain aspects of retraining for the benefit of society - same as wanting to help first time buyers into the housing market. It’s not interested in being “fair” to individuals. You don’t get it made up to you later. Similarly though, if you didn’t pay massive fees on your undergrad degree in the 90s the government didn’t come along thirty years later and demand extra money now because that’s what it was charging current students.

I don’t resent anyone’s education. I have an MA myself (self funded).

That’s really useful @Bills2pay - thank you.

I think writing ‘would be totally possible’ in my first post made it sound like I was thinking selfishly about not being entitled to one.

Rather, as a taxpayer, like @Nebulacoffee says, I’d be happy to be paying for a system that funded further research projects and retraining opportunities for people in a ‘needs to’ not ‘wants to’ situation.