Universal Credit - how can this be right?

[beentheretoo]

I’ll admit I know very little about Universal Credit apart from what you hear on the news thankfully (touch wood) never had to claim).

A friend recently got a new job 2 days a week I congratulated her and said it’s the type of job they are always looking for people I bet they’ll be offering you more days in no time. She then said oh I don’t want more days it’ll affect my UC, I’m allowed to work up to 16 hours before they take money off me and besides I’m really looking forward to having 3 days to myself once the kids are back in school. She’s a single parent her DH left her when she was a SAHM she was on full UC for a bit then had another PT job now this new one (she has a degree but doesn’t want to go back into that field).

I was thinking about it how can they be right that if you work 16 hours you get full UC but if you work 20 you get money taken away? Where’s the incentive to work more hours? My friends DC are older so doesn’t need childcare and I’m sure loads of people would love 3 days to themselves I bloody would.

Am I getting it correct then?

Depending on the age of the children you don't have to work 35 hours.
For example age 3 to start of primary school children it's usually set at16 hours a week and primary up to age 12 it's set at 25 hours a week. 13 and over 35 hours a week. Adjustments can be made for individual circumstances but these are the starting points.

Childcare you should get 85% of so long as you don't exceed the maximum.

I'm working and on UC, have no kids and buy a weekly bus pass anyway so I take any overtime I can get and my wage varies. I just had a look at my spreadsheet and for working 29 extra hours per month, my monthly income went up by £98.

There's no 16 hour rule at all on UC. People with children on their claim get a work allowance. If they claim help with rent this is £292 a month and if they don't claim help with rent it's £512 a month. The work allowance is an amount people can earn up to without their total Uc being reduced by wages. So basically the first £292 or £512 is disregarded then after that each pound they earn reduces that person's total Uc by 63p. So yes in theory you should always be better off working. I expect if your friend has a mortgage, she doesn't want to earn more than £512 a month because after that her Uc will start to reduce.

You're nearly always better off working.
Individual circumstances can change the overall award slightly but having gone through this after returning to work following maternity and found we were still eligible for £1300 UC a month and two full time wages there was no way I wasn't going to work full time!

I'm currently a SAHM (by circumstance not choice) and we are better off with me not working. If i work, we lose all of our entitlement. The cost of childcare (with UC contributions and tax free childcare) means my take home pay is less than the UC we currently receive. If I work evenings/weekends when DH is home, the jobs available don't pay enough to match the UC we get when I don't work.

Its so frustrating, it shouldn't be like this. The only way I could afford to work in jobs I'm currently qualified for would be if I had free childcare. I can't afford to retrain at the minute.

The system is so wrong. I desperately want to go to back to work, but can't afford to until my youngest is in primary school. (In Northern Ireland, we don't get free nursery hours)

@PADH but can't you claim the 85% of childcare from UC in NI?
For two or more children it's £1,108 a month max claim which is just a godsend

@slashlover

I'm working and on UC, have no kids and buy a weekly bus pass anyway so I take any overtime I can get and my wage varies. I just had a look at my spreadsheet and for working 29 extra hours per month, my monthly income went up by £98.

Yep. That’s the grand total for all those extra hours. It is easy to see why people say there is little point in working more when their income whilst on UC doesn’t increase by the hourly wage.

@PADH

I'm currently a SAHM (by circumstance not choice) and we are better off with me not working. If i work, we lose all of our entitlement. The cost of childcare (with UC contributions and tax free childcare) means my take home pay is less than the UC we currently receive. If I work evenings/weekends when DH is home, the jobs available don't pay enough to match the UC we get when I don't work.

Its so frustrating, it shouldn't be like this. The only way I could afford to work in jobs I'm currently qualified for would be if I had free childcare. I can't afford to retrain at the minute.

The system is so wrong. I desperately want to go to back to work, but can't afford to until my youngest is in primary school. (In Northern Ireland, we don't get free nursery hours)

Children in their pre school year get 15 hours free nursery in NI.

Sorry- 12.5 hours.

Careful with the 85% back on childcare that can then affect other benefits. When I was on UC after losing my job my council tax was fully discounted. Once I started working I was on low wage and only 20 hours a week but didn’t require childcare, at this point council tax was still heavily discounted as I earned so little.

Once I required childcare, which was a lot per month (& I was on the same salary) I received 85% a month back but this then counted as income for applying the council tax discount! Even though I was paying more in expenses, had less money in my pocket, I needed to pay more council tax 🤦‍♀️ It made no sense.

Now I am fortunate enough to have a much better paying, full time job but childcare is still crazy expensive and I no longer get 85% back.

Once I required childcare, which was a lot per month (& I was on the same salary) I received 85% a month back but this then counted as income for applying the council tax discount! Even though I was paying more in expenses, had less money in my pocket, I needed to pay more council tax 🤦‍♀️ It made no sense.

Oh this is epically shit and should be fixed. The system needs to be synced up in a much better way than it currently is to prevent stuff like this.

@PADH

I'm currently a SAHM (by circumstance not choice) and we are better off with me not working. If i work, we lose all of our entitlement. The cost of childcare (with UC contributions and tax free childcare) means my take home pay is less than the UC we currently receive. If I work evenings/weekends when DH is home, the jobs available don't pay enough to match the UC we get when I don't work.

Its so frustrating, it shouldn't be like this. The only way I could afford to work in jobs I'm currently qualified for would be if I had free childcare. I can't afford to retrain at the minute.

The system is so wrong. I desperately want to go to back to work, but can't afford to until my youngest is in primary school. (In Northern Ireland, we don't get free nursery hours)

But you would get a UC childcare elment?

Is this really your friend OP? Firstly I agree it’s not just UC it’s the way the benefit system works generally it’s a bit of a poverty trap..

UC is based on the amount of hours you work and your hourly rate.... so it’s your monthly wage because someone could work 16 hours at £16.00 per hour

How old are your friends children OP? UC usually would want you to look for a job with more hours as your children get to a certain age in normal times.

[quote Pinetreesfall]@PADH but can't you claim the 85% of childcare from UC in NI?
For two or more children it's £1,108 a month max claim which is just a godsend [/quote]
It's means tested, so with mine and dhs combined earnings we get 10% towards childcare, which isn't enough to make it payable, not 85%. My sister is a single parent and gets the full 85%.

@UhtredRagnarson

Children in their pre school year get 15 hours free nursery in NI.

15 hours as opposed to 30 is a massive difference in the area I live where nursery fees are astronomical and all local childminders are full. I have done every sum and combination possible. With all the will in the world, it doesn't balance.

PADH LTB and be a single mum! Quids in innit!!

@babyroobs

But you would get a UC childcare elment?

I did mention the UC contribution in my post. We don't get the full 85%, we get 10% which does not balance out my wage + childcare costs vs universal credit entitlement while at home.

Trust me, I've done all the sums in every combination possible, it doesn't work out. Short of free childcare or an employer paying me double my worth, with all the will in the world it simply doesn't work in our circumstances.

It won't be forever. 2 more years and I'll be back, but it is frustrating.

@BustyDusty

PADH LTB and be a single mum! Quids in innit!!

I was a single mother with my first, no thank you! Apologies if any offence was taken, it wasn't meant flippantly.

If she earns only minimum wage, she will as a single parent be expected to work 25 hours once all children are at school age, then 35 hrs once all are over 13. Alternatively, she can work less hours as long as she earns at least the equivalent of the minimum wage at the hours required at the various ages. Full details below:

www.turn2us.org.uk/Your-Situation/Bringing-up-a-child/Single-parents-and-Universal-Credit

Did the father of your child pay maintenance? (ps no offence taken x)

Hopefully once she gets a few wage rises etc (if any of us ever get wage rises again!) she'll be able to look at gradually increasing so that she doesn't end up ten years down the line facing her income drop off a cliff when the UC stops and she realises she's paid fuck all into a pension.

^

Not that I'm saying looking after 3 kids is cheap, but if she did pay into a pension she could still only work 16 hours.

Let's just go back to the days of the workhouse.....

Lol state pension? Who thinks anyone working or not is getting this in twenty years time? If living on benefits is a fiddle then go do it? What's stopping you?