Universal Credit - how can this be right?

[beentheretoo]

I’ll admit I know very little about Universal Credit apart from what you hear on the news thankfully (touch wood) never had to claim).

A friend recently got a new job 2 days a week I congratulated her and said it’s the type of job they are always looking for people I bet they’ll be offering you more days in no time. She then said oh I don’t want more days it’ll affect my UC, I’m allowed to work up to 16 hours before they take money off me and besides I’m really looking forward to having 3 days to myself once the kids are back in school. She’s a single parent her DH left her when she was a SAHM she was on full UC for a bit then had another PT job now this new one (she has a degree but doesn’t want to go back into that field).

I was thinking about it how can they be right that if you work 16 hours you get full UC but if you work 20 you get money taken away? Where’s the incentive to work more hours? My friends DC are older so doesn’t need childcare and I’m sure loads of people would love 3 days to themselves I bloody would.

Am I getting it correct then?

[quote May17th]@LucieStar that’s what I was thinking too not that cheap in the North! Even £1200 as a single person won’t stretch far at all unless you live in a very cheap house share.[/quote]
I know - if that family is out there - I salute you!

The only reason I made such an extreme example was to say that yes, I'm aware that there is obviously a range of ways to live.

I kept on getting questioned on my generic statement that 50k gross income probably on average means 3k expenditure for a family, so I just wrote that to end the argument. But it never does...there's always another response that picks up on some inconsequential bit and wants to surgically disect it 😂

@TulisaIsBrill

It's called a 2 way conversation - I wasn't "surgically dissecting" anything.

It's a public forum. What you view as "inconsequential" someone else is interested in and will make comment on.

@Ylvamoon

I’m going to break this down for you.

I’ve worked since I was 14. Full time since 16. I worked through university and paid my mothers rent as well as my own- because she couldn’t manage on HER benefits.

Im now 33. My salary was 50k pa 6 years ago. It’s now considerably lower as I moved out of London and into a new career. I have paid a lot of tax. I have worked full time whilst raising my child alone, to great financial detriment - because childcare and rent is SO expensive, even in this part of the country, that I would need to be earning 50k again to be keeping my head above water. That isn’t going to happen outside of London.

I have done EVERYTHING a good little prole does in the eyes of a Tory government. And there is still NOTHING I can do to improve the situation. I am STILL mired in economic shit because I fell pregnant to an alcoholic, and couldn’t sustain a nuclear family in those circumstances.

I dare not even apply for higher paid jobs just now because we’re in such an awful period of turbulence that “first in last out” feels horribly likely- and mine is the only salary coming in. So I’m stuck.

Actually- I lie. I COULD do something. I could improve my mental health significantly and be in roughly the same financial position by working in a less demanding job, for less money across less hours, spending nothing on childcare and increasing my universal credit claim.

But I havent and I won’t. If that isn’t “taking responsibility” - even when it flies in the face of all logic- I don’t know what is.

You have a lot to say- why don’t you tell me- what more can I do to “take responsibility”? I would love to know.

[quote May17th]@LucieStar that’s what I was thinking too not that cheap in the North! Even £1200 as a single person won’t stretch far at all unless you live in a very cheap house share.[/quote]

Exactly! My outgoings range from 2,000-2,200 pm and I'm about as north as you can get without crossing the border

Housing is cheaper in some parts of the North but other things can be more expensive - or at least worse value. Leisure spending for eg can be more expensive : lots of stuff to do for free in London.

But anyway I digress.

Anyone on here who claims either UC or tax credits, up your pension payments while you can.

It was a revelation to me when I discovered this. Since then I've built up £50k in five years using my contributions, HMRC relief and employer contributions (was earning less for the first three of those, now it's £12k a year) and my income hasn't gone down at all. My take home pay has gone down ofc but that doesn't matter because I get topped back up. There's no way I could have ever put in £50k without top ups but if the government is willing to reimburse me I'm happy to take it.

Doesn't anyone have morals anymore,it all seems to centre around benefits,ahhh yes there it is,something for absolutely nothing as usual,
Wonder what will happen when these benefits stop,& maybe one day they just might,what will the last lot do?

Doesn't anyone have morals anymore,

No HTH

Also you need to have a question mark when you ask a question.

Hope this also helps.

What's immoral? I'm literally doing what David Cameron said was "doing the right thing" - working and saving for my future.

It is their prerogative to seek this, and also, how do you know that it's not because those women will see no financial benefit to working full time as it has been pointed out many times here that that can be the case
I agree fully. It's a life choice and that's fine. The issue is when that choice then comes with expectations that they should also have the same financial options and freedoms to people working FT.

Surely it doesn't take much to appreciate that a very large proportion of parents who work FT do so only because of the financial extra that comes with it and would otherwise opt to work PT and enjoy more time with their kids too.

And yet I find it extraordinary that people can't understand why a person who doesn't have my privilege and luck would make very rational choices around how much work they are prepared to do for a certain amount of reward
Because rational choices involve considering the impact of these choices on your future.

You could use the same analogy with education. Waste of time as a kid when you don't what you learn when you could instead have more fun. The benefits come later, education is an investment.

If you work full time with 3 kids hats off to you as a single parent. The majority of people who do this have a family support network to assist them with school holidays etc.. not everyone is as lucky my response was to your comment about working “FT and owning a home”
No help at all, even their dad would only have them a few hours on Saturday only. My kids went to nursery and school from 7:30 to 5:30, sometimes 6pm. Went to holiday clubs but after a few years also swapped days and kids with friends. It demanded a high level of organising and planning and I only just about made it financially. Some months, I was in the red and the last week saw us eating what was left over,but it never cross my mind not to work FT, because I could and therefore it was what I had to do to support my kids. I also knew that it could only get better and did everything needed to be promoted.

Not everyone can do it, of course not, but it's the lack of thinking ahead that gets me. It's all about immediate gratification and then taking no responsibility for the consequences. Some people are fine with the idea of having to work ft in nmw jobs until they are 67 with few luxuries and that's fine, but many complain about it when their kids are grown up and won't accept that a lot if it issue to the choices they made 20/30 years earlier.

@mytwocats

Doesn't anyone have morals anymore,it all seems to centre around benefits,ahhh yes there it is,something for absolutely nothing as usual, Wonder what will happen when these benefits stop,& maybe one day they just might,what will the last lot do?

"Morals" don't pay the bills.

It’s always been the case about the 16 hour rule.
She is a single parent though. She may be making light of this but it’s relentless and outcomes for your children are statistically lower. Children need time too not just a person coming home from work and struggling with double the workload, physical and mental. She’s not going to be well off with the choice she has made.
Walk a mile in someone’s shoes.

@DogsAreShit

Housing is cheaper in some parts of the North but other things can be more expensive - or at least worse value. Leisure spending for eg can be more expensive : lots of stuff to do for free in London.

But anyway I digress.

Anyone on here who claims either UC or tax credits, up your pension payments while you can.

It was a revelation to me when I discovered this. Since then I've built up £50k in five years using my contributions, HMRC relief and employer contributions (was earning less for the first three of those, now it's £12k a year) and my income hasn't gone down at all. My take home pay has gone down ofc but that doesn't matter because I get topped back up. There's no way I could have ever put in £50k without top ups but if the government is willing to reimburse me I'm happy to take it.

Excellent work . Why wouldn't you 👍

I stick the 40k in mine, it gets me back into the 100-125k personal allowance taper, thankfully.

Then I salary sacrifice using cycle to work, which is a 10k bike each year that comes out costing 3.3k net.

After that, it's time for the EV scheme - it's gonna be a nice Tesla every few years, zero BIK for now too. In this band, thats a fully insured and maintained EV for a net £300 p/m. Model 3 performance 👍👍👍

After that the rest over 100k goes on a gift aid contribution.

I only wish I could get my child benefit back too. But hey, cant complain.

And before anyone says that's shocking - remember I'm still paying an eye watering 33k in tax and NI.

And resent every penny of it because it's just being wasted on help to buy and backstopping 5% mortgages. I'm furious. Frankly, I'm half tempted to dump the next 50k gross as a gift aid too straight to an NHS trust. Hmmm.....if I did that I'd get my child benefit back.....

@mytwocats

Doesn't anyone have morals anymore,it all seems to centre around benefits,ahhh yes there it is,something for absolutely nothing as usual, Wonder what will happen when these benefits stop,& maybe one day they just might,what will the last lot do?

Something for nothing? Being on benefits is miserable... and they wont ever be stopped because they are safety net that many rely on for reasons such as losing a job and/or being unable to work due to illness/disability. I am on UC... I hate it. It is a meagre existence. People shaming others for claiming though almost tops that.

@TulisaIsBrill all sounds very sensible.

A lot of people don't know about the pension side of tax credits/universal credit. Eg when I first gave notice to payroll that I was upping my contributions to the extent I have, the head of HR actually got in touch for a chat to "check if that's what you want to do". He'd even worked out my take home for me, bless him, and tbf it did look alarming. So our entire HR department at work clearly don't know about it.

@mytwocats

Doesn't anyone have morals anymore,it all seems to centre around benefits,ahhh yes there it is,something for absolutely nothing as usual, Wonder what will happen when these benefits stop,& maybe one day they just might,what will the last lot do?

Well, when my LL accepts morals as part payment for rent, or the council as payment towards my council tax bill, then it'll be worth putting morals above actual money coming in.

Top and bottom of it is-
if the living wage was actually enough to live on, I'd not need top ups.
If my child's father paid what he was supposed to, I wouldn't need top ups. Though why would he when it's so much easier to walk away, safe in the knowledge he'll be a hero for looking after his own child once a fortnight, and I'll get battered by society, the press, the government and people like you for his choice?
If the cost of living wasn't so high I'd be able to manage on my pittance.

And a general question, are you all willing to take your elderly relatives home to look after when care assistants don't exist any more because we've all got better jobs? Are you willing to pay double for food than you do now because that'll be the going rate for a shop assistant with 2 degrees because they were told they needed to get off benefits and have morals? How are you going to do your fantastic job without someone to look after your children for a pittance they can't afford to live on? Are you going to pay twice or 3 times as much for a night out because all the bar staff are now degree educated and worth a lot more and no one will do it for minimum wage?
What then?
Because that's the outcome of everyone bettering themselves, there are jobs that are essential to society, that enable society to function, if everyone doing them got a better job tomorrow so they don't need benefits and they ceased to exist, what happens then?
It's not feasible for that to happen.
So either they're paid a wage they can live on, or they're subsidised by the government to support the low wage they are getting. We unfortunately can't crawl back under a bridge after each shift and cease to exist because the truth of this isn't palatable to some people!

@dontdisturbmenow I find it hard to believe you had no mother or family supporting you.

-The benefits come later, education is an investment.---

Someone has pointed out to you already who will do the lower paid jobs? Also not everyone can study at a degree level you do know we all have different qualities and intelligence levels don’t you? Other wise we would all be a doctor or a lawyer. I’m sorry but you need to get real. It’s all well in good sat speaking hypothetically... mean while back in RL....

I also have known people with a degree and I have no degree and I earn more than them. It’s how the cookie crumbles... it’s life!

What is this about pensions?
Are pension contributions disregarded by universal credit?

[quote DogsAreShit]@TulisaIsBrill all sounds very sensible.

A lot of people don't know about the pension side of tax credits/universal credit. Eg when I first gave notice to payroll that I was upping my contributions to the extent I have, the head of HR actually got in touch for a chat to "check if that's what you want to do". He'd even worked out my take home for me, bless him, and tbf it did look alarming. So our entire HR department at work clearly don't know about it.[/quote]
Hehe - them and even pension advisors are often utterly clueless.

We had one come in who said 'pension contributions could reduce your entitlement to state benefits'* . I said 'errr....it's more likely to increase them' to gasps from a room who were disgusted when I explained it 😂

• (He meant if you went below the NIC contributions thresholds for future state pension - which is practically impossible anyway given you are capped on salary sacrifice to taking home minimum wage).

@JosieJarker

What is this about pensions? Are pension contributions disregarded by universal credit?

Yep. 100 lovely %

Yes, and tax credits.

Well. I did not know this about pensions! Is it the same for tax credits? I'm still on the old style benefits. Had no idea pension contributions were disregarded! So I could increase my pension contributions and not lose out?

So is it always better to make more contributions?
So long as I take home minimum wage for the hours I need to work?

Housing benefit only disregards 50% though, so those on legacy benefits in areas where rents are high need to be a bit more careful.

@Waxonwaxoff0

Well. I did not know this about pensions! Is it the same for tax credits? I'm still on the old style benefits. Had no idea pension contributions were disregarded! So I could increase my pension contributions and not lose out?

Well, you will still be reducing your gross income, so you will lose 27p in the pound net.

Run the sums on the government tax credits calculator. You'll see what we mean.

But if you have a good employer who offers salary sacrifice, then that could mean anything up to £1.138 into your pension for a 27p loss in net income.