To expect this from Trump, not the EU?

[The6thQueen]

Maybe I’m naive or need to be ‘educated’, but this smacks of a toddler throwing their toys out of the pram

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-12235848

And yes EU playing politics and rubbishing the AZ vaccine is what has denied thousands of EU citizens access to what they really need right now. However it is spun the leaders of the EU are not looking at all good right now.

So we feel the same then, great.

DH has French family that won't fucking take the vaccine now even though they are at considerable risk. ☹️

ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/coronavirus-european-solidarity-action_en

Just to say that here in Australia, the general response to this is pretty much meh, they probably need it more. And we are about to start manufacturing the AZ vaccine here ourselves, so this 250,000 won’t have much of an impact on our rollout, because you know we have actually spent the last year setting up our own facilities and will be totes fine rolling out our own stock so really don’t need to whine about the rest of the world not playing fair

EU is looking really bad tbh.

@EerieSilence Ireland has 3% of the population vaccinated mostly medical staff care homes, the public roll out is a joke.
My NDN's are 89 and 90 haven't had one shot yet, another recovered from cancer 70's hasn't had any arrangements made.
MIL FIL BIL and neighbours have had their 1st shot in NI.
BIL is a 30 y.o asthmatic.

@Mimtastic

Just to say that here in Australia, the general response to this is pretty much meh, they probably need it more. And we are about to start manufacturing the AZ vaccine here ourselves, so this 250,000 won’t have much of an impact on our rollout, because you know we have actually spent the last year setting up our own facilities and will be totes fine rolling out our own stock so really don’t need to whine about the rest of the world not playing fair

Exactly. I don't know anyone who has got even remotely worked up over this. General consensus is that they need it more and we'll be producing them soon anyway.

@Cowgran
@Mimtastic
That's positive at least.
Italy has been ravished by Covid19.

It's not the fact that you don't need it that is the issue, it's the principle and the somewhat dubious reasons that may or may not be behind it.

No country is out of the woods with this yet, there are mutations popping up all the time and we don't have a crystal ball to know how effective the AZ will be with future strains. What you do need however, is to have confidence that all your contracts with your vaccine suppliers are going to be delivered in the order they were placed and are not going to be hijacked by another country (and no, this is not what happened between U.K. AZ and EU). It's not countries outwith the EU procurement scheme to have to fall short because of the EU's mistakes.

@Emeraldshamrock I also have Irish family & yep still waiting.

While I have sympathy for Italy in this case, I do think this is a slippery slope. Ultimately Europe could be shooting themselves in the foot. It's not "their vaccine", just because it is mostly made in their country. It belongs to the pharmaceutical company that made it. The idea that they could block exports from vaccine companies that are meeting the contract with the EU such as Pfizer because another pharmaceutical company isn't meeting their contract is even more outrageous.

Exactly. I don't know anyone who has got even remotely worked up over this. General consensus is that they need it more and we'll be producing them soon anyway.

I think the UK is worked up because there is a potential they may try to stop vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna coming to the UK,

@The6thQueen

How do you mean *@TomPinch*?

The EU is only nice if you're inside it. If you're outside it its a fairly exploitative massively walled garden you can't play in

*I find it odd that (a) it is Italy who has done this, so what has the EU got to do with it and (b) has everyone forgotten that not so long ago there were lengthy threads on here complaining that the UK was being expected to give up the stocks that are manufactured in the UK, and the argument was that they are ours because we made them - exactly what Italy are saying - they made them, they are theirs."

It hasn't all been made in Italy. The initial gloop comes from Oxford and Keele in the UK.

I find it odd that (a) it is Italy who has done this, so what has the EU got to do with it and (b) has everyone forgotten that not so long ago there were lengthy threads on here complaining that the UK was being expected to give up the stocks that are manufactured in the UK, and the argument was that they are ours because we made them - exactly what Italy are saying - they made them, they are theirs.

It hasn't all been made in Italy. The initial gloop comes from Oxford and Keele in the UK.

On this, I can’t blame Italy. In the grand scheme of things it’s actually a tiny number of doses and it’s better they are in the arms of 250,000 elderly Italians than Australians.
There was an Australian politician in the radio 4 this morning and his general view was that it’s fine but it would have been nice to be asked as they’d probably have agreed.
I think Australia will be making loads of their own doses of AZ soon so the urgency is lower for them than for Italy and Europe.
I generally think countries without Covid circulation should wait a bit longer for their doses. Like a pp said, they have the advantage in pandemic part 1 of being an island, not a travel hub etc and that’s fair enough. Now Europe / U.K. has the advantage of being major vaccine research players in the development and manufacturer of vaccines and that will give Europe/ US/ U.K. an advantage in pandemic part 2 and that’s fair enough too.

So why didn't they just ask? Consensus of opinion seems to be that they need it more. Why go straight for the most aggressive tactic?
Agree with a pp that it's a slippery slope to seize products just because they are made in your country/bloc even when those products are privately owned.

I have to agree @MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously. I think the EU have lofty ideals - which I applaud - but they always have to follow them if they are to set an example to the world they want us to live in.
I think I’m disappointed, not because of Brexit, or any desire to see the EU fail, in fact the opposite, but because I want their to be governance in this world which doesn’t just pay lip service to ‘lefty ideals’.
Their response to this and the Irish debacle, suggests a knee jerk reaction, slightly panicky in the face of tough situations, leadership.
I genuinely thought they were better than this - needed them to be better than this - which is why I am shocked.
Hence the naive bit in my op

*there
I did proof read it ffs

Pretty sure that Australia placed their order before the EU placed theirs. To be fair, Europe does need the vaccine more critically than Australia does. I wonder how uptake of Astra-Zeneca is going in Europe these days.

If you wanted to be out of the club, they you can’t complain about the application of big boy’s rules to competition.

Remainer here, but in the last year or so I'm starting to think leaving might if been good idea.

Australian here. Our locally produced Astra Zeneca will be ready to roll out on March 22. I think we’ve already had 300,000 doses delivered from Europe.
Other countries are much more in need. Our borders are closed, we have strict quarantine and our lives are almost back to normal. If the Italians can quickly give those doses meant for Australia to their citizens I don’t think we should be complaining - and I haven’t seen anything in the media here expressing outrage about it either.

j712adrian when it come to the vaccine roll out I'm grateful to be 'out of the club'. With our death toll as high as it is, imagine having the worst of both worlds - management of the pandemic by this government and management of the vaccines by the EU!

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect governments not to hijack private property though. You do wonder about their attitude to leadership when you see this sort of behaviour, not least because everyone agrees that the EU needs the vaccines more and Australia would likely have agreed anyway, if asked. I honestly don't understand the thought process of just seizing it - it makes the EU look out of control and panicked - not a good look in an organisation responsible for millions of people