To expect this from Trump, not the EU?

[The6thQueen]

Maybe I’m naive or need to be ‘educated’, but this smacks of a toddler throwing their toys out of the pram

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-italy-and-eu-block-oxford-vaccine-shipment-to-australia-12235848

?

The Italian call for help? That was the comment in the guardian article I read.

Lack of means is a bit vague though imo.

I'm a European by the way but live in the UK. I think the EU handling of the vaccine has been a huge fuck up & as I have much loved family & friends who very much need the vaccine I'm pissed.

@The6thQueen

How do you mean *@TomPinch*?

The organisation has always been a protectionist racket - a cartel, a bit like an upside down OPEC. Benevolent it certainly is not. It subsidises European farmers to produce surpluses and then dumps the surpluses in developing countries, impoverishing local farmers who cannot get a fair price for their produce. The tariff and regulatory system is geared towards favoring big business at the expense of competitors and consumers. The Euro helps Germany keep its currency artificially competitive, at the expense of Mediterranean nations.

God we are well out of the EU

I think the scales are well and truly falling from people’s eyes.

@Insertfunnyname

God we are well out of the EU

I think the scales are well and truly falling from people’s eyes.

It may be better to be in the tent pissing out.

Australian here. Obviously we want what our government has bought/ordered and we want to be vaccinated as soon as possible so that life can return to normal (eg. my 10 month old baby still hasn't met her grandparents in another state due to border closures). However to be honest, I really have no problem with European countries prioritising their citizens. They have been far more severely impacted than us.

@Emeraldshamrock, before you continue talking out of your hole, let's have a look at the full data:

www.euronews.com/2021/03/04/covid-19-vaccinations-in-europe-which-countries-are-leading-the-way

Ireland are fully vaccinated at 3%. Fully, as in TWO doses administered. This is where UK is at 1.4%, just by the very way.

Surely this is what any government with the ability to do so would do? Protect it's own citizens ahead of others. It's certainly what many here would be calling for.

Perversely, it's one of the reasons the Brexit vote was successful, because people wanted the UK to be able to make these kinds of decisions and there was a perception that we couldn't within the EU.

I'd rather be where we are than where Ireland is in terms of vaccination. It's great for the 3% who've had both does but not so much for the vast majority who haven't had any, since the data suggests that one dose is still good at reducing both symptoms and transmission.
I think we are doing okay in terms of 2nd doses - my parents are getting their 2nd next week and they weren't among the first people to get the initial vaccine. So things are moving as they should.

This is so weird people are surprised. It's like when people were perplexed the EU wouldn't put the Brits' interest ahead of the Europeans' in brexit negotiations (the mean EU are punishing us by not letting us have and eat our cake and their cake too...)

What is surprising about this? Italy needs vaccines, they're not a charity, look at the death and economic impacts of Italy vs Australia, of course they'll exercise their abilities to try and get some. And if you were an Italian you'd be apoplectic if they didn't.

What is surprising about this?

I and my relatives are definitely surprised that they EU mucked this up quite so badly.
However I'm a little perplexed by the double standards, it's fine if they want to prioritise Italy because they are worse off than Australia but likewise don't complain when the UK with their high death toll does the same.

I don't see what charity has to do with it - they weren't giving those vaccines to Australia. While I do think that Italy needs them more, I think whether it's right to seize them hinges on when Australia ordered them in comparison to the EU.

And if you were an Italian you'd be apoplectic if they didn't.

Are you Italian? Most Italians who had family in the north are pissed that the EU didn't help them earlier.

Yes the charity point is odd, were Australia receiving these vaccines as a gift?

If the vaccines were going to South America, West Africa or the UK, then there's an argument that it's wrong to disrupt supplies because cases are just as high and every country needs some. However it's Australia, who don't have cases and are supposed to start making their own vaccine supplies soon. The Australians are not in severe need of vaccines but the Italians are, so it's not comparable to the French border force stealing NHS masks off a lorry back in March that were needed here as much or more than in France. So while every capitalist instinct I have shrinks from the idea of stealing goods intended for elsewhere, in this very limited example I can see their point. The next step when the EC has Belgium prevent Pfizer exports and Spain prevent Moderna exports will not have the same justification, but by then we'll shrug that this is what we expect because it was fair enough for Italy to do the same.

“No member state responded to Italy’s request and to the commission’s call for help,” said Janez Lenarčič, the European commissioner responsible for crisis management. “Which meant that not only is Italy is not prepared … Nobody is prepared … The lack of response to the Italian request was not so much a lack of solidarity. It was a lack of equipment.”

That's what been said. That's what The Guradian published.

Lack of equipment means that no one had enough PPE etc. UK included.

It was last year at the beginning, since then UE decide to have extra covid fund.

@deragod I don't understand your point? It was ok to block exports of vital equipment between member states because you need to protect your own country first?

It was last year at the beginning, since then UE decide to have extra covid fund.

I'm sure that's some comfort to my Italian colleagues & family who lost a relative.

Iirc when Italy had bodies being piled up back last March, Germany decided to stop exporting PPE. Italy needed it more than Germany at that point. If I was Italian, I'd not be forgetting that in a hurry.

When they can't respect the rule of law it becomes a major long term issue. They should have got contracts that prioritised them and they have screwed up. I would say nobody would vote for this lot again, but it's the commission and citizens aren't important enough to vote for those chancers anyway. Glad we are out.

Their vaccine funding has been a fraction of that of the UK or the US.

What has that to do with anything? How much has Australia put in?

I find it odd that (a) it is Italy who has done this, so what has the EU got to do with it and (b) has everyone forgotten that not so long ago there were lengthy threads on here complaining that the UK was being expected to give up the stocks that are manufactured in the UK, and the argument was that they are ours because we made them - exactly what Italy are saying - they made them, they are theirs.

Anyway, I'm sure that Australia, with their minimal impact of the pandemic and almost no adverse economic impact will have used the last year to set up plenty of their own production facilities and will be fine rolling out their own stock. No? Well they wanted to be an island when it suited them (not blaming them for that, just an observation that was their approach) but they want to complain about the rest of the world not playing fair when it doesn't suit them. They have almost no Covid at all - they have had plenty of time, money and capacity to manufacture their own stocks like others have done.

But anyone who thinks that Italy - one of the worst hit countries in the world - is being unreasonable is perfectly entitled to suggest that the UK send Australia those 500k doses from the stocks we manufacture in the UK. Nobody? I thought not.

It’s a slippery slope they are on that’s for sure.
Very much depends on the nature of the contract with Australia. Are Italy allowed to keep these supplies for themselves or do they have to share round with other member states? If so then the benefit of this will be negligible, especially if some EU countries, as reported, are sitting on a large quantity of AZ anyway (because, well we know why that is). What happens if Germany start applying the same with Pfizer? or is this just a purely AZ sour grapes thing?

Anyway, whatever the reason it doesn’t look good.

Actually, I would be willing to send Australia supplies, once our own needs are met, just as I would send it to the EU because it's important that the world gets vaccinated. No one is saying that Australia needs it more though.

Wrt Britain's supplies, they were ours because we ordered them ahead of the EU and we invested more in the development of the vaccine. Both of those reasons explain why we had no obligation to give up our orders to supply the EU, who ordered late and played politics by investing in the failed French vaccine. You pays your money...

No @tonytiy I'm British and Spanish. I was annoyed when the British government weren't taking steps which might have saved my 36yr old cousin (who nobody counts because he had "underlying conditions" despite being a young outdoor sportsman) and now I'm annoyed the EU didn't order enough vaccines quickly enough that my Spanish family (mainly worried about one ECV) won't be vaccinated for ages, and I expect both the Spanish govt to put the spanish interests first,and the British govt to put the uk interests first.

(I'm also annoyed at the Spanish govt for not prioritising ECV)