AIBU to expect that DP will do some housework while he's on parental leave

[Etherealhedgehog]

5 month old DD is a joy but currently naps only on me or in the pram, and night sleep is not great (hello never-ending sleep regression!). We're taking steps to try and improve matters but want to be gentle so it will take time. This plus COVID plus the fact that we're in a one-bed rental and trying to buy our first flat means that my maternity leave is a bit of a slog, with no time to recharge or get stuff done in the day. I'm living for the weekends, when it's still a slog but at least there are two of us to share the load.

I'm going back to work at 9 months and DP will be taking three months of SPL subsequent to that - something that was really important to both of us.

Earlier DP joked about 'imagine how amazing it will be if by the time I'm on parental leave we're in our own flat and she's finally napping in the cot.' Funnily enough I didn't guffaw with laughter, because this is probably exactly what will happen and it feels desperately unfair (obviously I still hope it happens - life's unfair, I know). I then said I hope he understood that if DD is napping X hours a day in the cot by then, a good chunk of that time should be spent doing housework/life admin etc, it's not just for watching Netflix and gaming.

He took great offence at this and said that while yes OF COURSE he would do some housework etc in that time, he thinks my stance is anti-feminist. That if you believe that looking after a baby is a full-time job then you should be in favour of whichever parent is doing it using nap time primarily for downtime, so that the other tasks (all housework, life admin etc) are split equally between both partners on evenings and weekends.

Apparently if I was getting three hours of baby free naptime atm, he would be all in favour of me spending it all watching Netflix and leaving the laundry and dishes to be done by one or the other of us after he finishes work. I reckon that's easy for him to say given that's not our reality right now (I should add that napping when the baby naps I see differently and am all in favour of - if there's an opportunity to catch up on needed sleep then go for it!)

So....

YABU - looking after a baby is hard. Chill out all you want whenever they're sleeping. The chores can wait til your partner gets home.

YANBU - if one partner is working 9-5 in an office it's reasonable to expect the other partner is working approximately those hours at home. By all means take some of that naptime every day to chill and recharge, but a good chunk of it should be used to get necessary housework and life admin done, giving both of you more time to enjoy evenings and weekends

I'm trying to say this gently OP but many men think shared parental leave is a holiday until they actually do it.

My DP did shared parental leave and before he did it he thought he would have loads of free time to do lots of stuff. Instead due to our DD being more mobile, started talking and slept less consistently during the day at home. So DP ended up with less free time then I did.

I managed to do some cleaning during the day and for the first month was able to watch boxsets in bed when I was on maternity leave . On the other hand when DP looked after DD, we ended up either doing the cleaning together or the less tired partner did it.

Earlier DP joked about 'imagine how amazing it will be if by the time I'm on parental leave we're in our own flat and she's finally napping in the cot.'

What a twat. Did you tell him what a selfish sentiment this is?

Don't take on the mental load of planning his time. You're infantilising him which will do the opposite of encouraging him to contribute more. Let him realise the dishes don't wash themselves.

Of course if your DD is asleep, he should get the 'light' chores done like pots, washing and tidying.

I wouldn't expect him to clean, hoover etc necessarily but he should make the most of the time the baby is asleep to make sure the house is presentable.

I think he's trying to prepare you for you coming home from work to find piles of dirty pots and the house a tip. I would not be happy with that unless your baby is seriously clingy/demanding and he did not have chance.

I do think you both need downtime during the day if you are doing the full time caring. I used to do my best to get housework done with the babies were awake - shove them on a mat on the floor to load dishwasher or hang up washing. Then I spent nap times sat on my bum doing whatever I needed to do to relax. And we got the rest of the house stuff and other tasks done evenings and weekends when there was more hands on deck.

But....I don't think you need to worry to much, because having had two babies, the time between 9-12 months is definitely one of the least relaxing bits! At 5 months, they are easily amused and relatively contained (and comparatively easy to get to sleep and with no teething or weaning to deal with). 9-12 months is pretty challenging. They don't sleep as easily, and you literally spend the entire day feeding them because they have a milk feed or a solid meal like every 2 hours every waking hour of the day. But you'll find a way through it and a good balance, especially as you start edging towards when you both go back to work.

Bear in mind what he's suggesting is that you work 9-5 and then also do the housework on top of that??

I’m actually mostly on his side for this. I really think a lot of maternity leave should be spent on the sofa cuddling the baby or relaxing rather than doing chores.

This is what I did for my maternity leave with a snuggly little baby who slept a lot on me.

When DH did shared parental leave DD was napping in her cot a lot but Christ she was VERY active by that age and he spent a lot of time running around after her while she lifted the toilet seat / put her fingers in plug sockets / pulled herself up on the bin etc etc.

So I was very supportive of him sitting on his arse when she was napping because physically the day is harder.

But overwhelmingly on MN women don’t get to sit on their arse on ML. They’re still expected to do housework. Why is it different for him?

It needs to be equal 99% of the time and the other 1% of the time if one parent is for example unwell the other does more/all.

He will realise once he’s at home though I imagine that you naturally don’t get much of a break and if you need to do something it’s hard as baby might fuss.

We make sure every evening we do the kitchen and tidy toys so it’s not too bad the next day but v often Dh gets up early before work and does extra jobs like hoovering or organising or putting something in the slow cooker. Makesdc morning bottle and prepares his breakfast so it’s all on the highchair for him ready. I do a little bit more of the life admin I think but we switch about whoever can do something does

my DH took 18 months parental leave and had a 3 year old and an 18 month old to look after (Germany - you have to love it) which meant that for each child i had the screamy crying baby/toddler both in nappies combo and he had the toddler /bigger toddler one in nappies combo.

We both did housework (i probably managed less because i had the tiny baby stages) but generally we work as a team and always have done even pre-offspring.

What you can't get into, and it looks like it's already starting is the competitive "i've had the harder day" rubbish. Some days your work will be a shit stressful day, and he'll have a fun relaxing day at home. Other days it will be the other way round. The worst days are when you both have shitty stressful days.

The early years are shit, try to get through them by working together.

Totally depends on the baby! DS1 was so needy that I barely had time to scratch my arse. DS2 was much easier after a while, so when DS1 was at nursery I could actually get some stuff done- I even managed to sew curtains and a matching pillowcase one day! DS2 didn't sleep at night though- you win some you lose some.

Turns out DS1 has ADHD (and most likely I do too), so no wonder I couldn't get anything done when he was around and felt like a total failure.

he thinks my stance is anti-feminist

Sorry OP, I know there is complexity to this issue but for this alone I'd like to slap him with a wet fish. Whatever his reasons for wanting to do whatever the fuck he likes while baby is sleeping, and he may have fair ones, it isn't because he's a passionate feminist.

Tbh, for the first 6-9 months, I was able to get loads of chores done, irrespective of naps. That's what playmats, bouncers, singing, and slings are for. If baby went down for naps, I could sleep,do chores or chill.

Once they hit the mobile stage, any notion of doing chores around them evaporates for about a year, and the only chance you get is nap. The burden increases massively as they get older.

So I'd say it's unfair for you to chill during naps when you could do your chores with an awake baby, when you expect him do do chores with a far more demanding child that he can't do naps around.

In reality, both of you should do what you reasonably can, and not take advantage, and every day will be different.

I'm actually on his side here. It's hard to understand until you've been in this position. I think most SAHP have grand illusions of having a napping baby, clean house AND long stretches of Netflix. He was just saying how nice that would be outloud, in his imagining I'm sure he want picturing himself watching TV in a messy flat. He probably holes he can have it all and you can come home from work to a fresh cooked meal clean home and well rested husband... Don't we all! You are both being hypothetical, try not to resent a hypothetical situation.

What really happens when you have a baby that age, is they are constantly on the go, crawling to bookshelves and pulling everything off, emptying draws, kitchen cupboards and toy boxes, shredding up paper, pulling wipes out of packets, making an unimaginable amount of mess at meal times that requires baths/full outfit changes, more than a wipe of a highchair. They bump their heads a lot, bash themselves in the face and need constant comforting and rescuing. You can't leave them alone to even go and pee or answer the door for the post so you have to lug them around everywhere. They have zero danger awareness so you are constantly on high alert to make sure you haven't left a baby gate open or an electric cord in reach. They play with sockets. By the time you get them down for a nap you are mentally exhausted. You need to tackle the huge mealtime mess and by the time you've done that and made yourself a cup of tea and taken it into the living room strewn with toys and pulled out baby wipes you then have to decide what you are going to do next, the breakfast and lunch dishes? Prep dinner? Empty the bins? Do some laundry? Clean up the living room? Then the doorbell goes with a parcel or a motorbike speeds last and the baby has woken up and you haven't done any and you certainly haven't done any relaxing watching Netflix.

Then your partner comes home, is visibly irritated with the mess and the lack of dinner on the table and says they are exhausted and need to lie down or have a long hot bath and you resent them because they just had a childfree commute listening to podcasts or reading! Imagine that. They had takeaway breakfast and a proper child free lunch break. An office job seems like a spa in comparison, and you really resent their need to lie down and their opinion that you have been lazy.

That is what happens when you start to resent each other any down time. Please don't fall into that trap.

If it makes you feel better you also need to remember by 9 months she is likely to be moving - DD spent ages making us hold her hand when she was trying to walk around at that age

How is it working at the moment with the split of housework

It entirely depends on what baby you have. A content sleeper, whoever is home can do loads. A clingy non-sleeper, whatever gets you through the day.

Apparently if I was getting three hours of baby free naptime atm, he would be all in favour of me spending it all watching Netflix and leaving the laundry and dishes to be done by one or the other of us after he finishes work.*

    You can easily test this out.  While he's at work, forget the housework, just watch netflix with baby. Let him catch up on the cooking and cleaning when he gets home.

@Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov

Stop talking about hypotheticals, you've started building up resentment about something that may never happen.

This. We did shared parental leave and I did sometimes feel I'd got the crap bit and he got the good bit, but it was actually pretty swings and roundabouts - he had longer naps when DH had him but DH also had to do all the food prep and clearing up of weaning, and had to contend with him being mobile. Both of us found that we had days where we got loads done around DS, and days where getting to the end of the day felt like an achievement. Assuming that at the end of it you'll both be back at work you do need to get used to getting all the housework, food prep etc done around your working hours anyway.

I never really understand when people say to just leave the housework for the first month/few months/ year(!), though - maybe these people were doing more unnecessary/finishing touches stuff than me before having a baby? Both before and after having my first the bulk of housework we did were things like laundry, washing dishes, cooking - they can't just be sacked off! And I now have a two week old and a 2.5 year old, so even more we can't just give up on the house - I don't want my toddler playing on a filthy floor or having his bath in a bath covered in grime! I really don't feel like we do anything unnecessary - no one scrubs the skirting boards in our house - so I don't see what there is to drop?

anti-feminist my arse

We did the exact same thing. DH is pretty good about housework and probably does more than me overall but I didn't resent him not doing any if he was having a hard day with the baby. I got a lunch break when I was back at work, an hour of downtime, plus my commute time, so why shouldn't he?

I enjoyed having my baby sleep on me because it was a chance to sit and relax rather than feel like I had to be doing something. My husband always managed to get the baby to nap in the cot but I didn't expect him to spend all of naptime running around doing housework just because he didn't have a baby attached to him!

You can be scientific and negotiate as much as you like but in essence - shared parental leave is not a holiday. Your problem is that your DH seems to view it as such.
If both people are considerate you can flex without too much discussion. Having an easy baby day , the SAHP would do more of the housework, on a hard day the working parent would.
But your DH seems to be ‘I have a specific task and if it’s easier I’m still not going to do any of the housework because it wasn’t agreed’.
That’s a pretty shit attitude

I think the DH is getting a bit of a hard time here - he never suggested he wouldn't be doing housework (and in fact saying that he 'of course' would be), just that he thought some of nap time should be treated as a break. He never even mentioned housework - OP leapt to that - just that he hoped the baby would be sleeping in the cot by then, which does indeed make life loads easier and nicer even if you spend all those naps getting things done.

I would guess he took offence because Netflix and gaming were what he had in mind, and you've pre-empted that!

It depends greatly on the mother's birth experience, health of the baby and so on, but it is worth remembering that one of the purposes of maternity leave is to enable the mother to recover from the birth.

I guess, it gets laid on so thick to some men, that looking after the child is a full time job, and they shouldn't also be expecting their partner to do the housework, because they are already doing a full time job (not an attitude I personally agree with), that when you switch roles, well that means he's not going to be expected to do the chores either surely...