To ask Health care staff treating me if they've had their covid vaccine?

[BearEastie]

I am immunosuppressed. I've been vaccinated but they don't know how well it will work yet.

I would prefer to only be treated by staff who had been vaccinated, thus if they said no I would ask for limited contact or a swap in nursing etc.

Just read shocking statistics from the hospital I am due to go to next month for a two week stay and I am starting to freak out just a little bit.

I’d be very surprised that any frontline staff haven’t already had the virus, in which case they are as much (if not better) protected from catching it again than vaccinated people who haven’t had the virus. I say this based on the huge numbers of patients who caught the virus in hospital. Surely staff must be catching it as well, and many without even knowing they’ve had it. In the Pfizer trial, out of 20,000 unvaccinated people only 200 caught the virus (or at least had a positive test and symptoms). Hardly any unvaccinated (or otherwise) people that you meet will be carrying the virus, though obviously in a hospital with covid patients the risk is much higher by nature of there being covid patients, and not because of “unvaccinated people”.

@Disressingtimes I do really feel for you re the judgement for having the vaccine - Its really horrible that people are trying prioritise their needs over someone else's when in most cases the two aren't even comparable.

I think I am going to make it my mission when I am in to do flu fighter vaccine badge research and see if they are actually scientific, and if I can collect them all when I come out! I needed to find something to do...

Definitely ask. They wont tell you but it will give weight to the idea that it matters to patients if staff are vaccinated so will help them make it mandatory. Health staff are supposedly caring and should (unless a valid medical exemption) put their patients health as a priority by having the vaccine.

fair play, but I don't want you treating me, a choice I get to make

It really isn't, as I said. You DON'T have a right to ask about other people's medical history.

I'm done here. You really don't understand anything about medical ethics, employment rights or the mechanism of action of the vaccines. You aren't listening to the people who actually know about this and who are telling you you are wrong. It's like trying to talk to a wall.

NailsNeedDoing how would i be passing risk on (sorry I missed that question)? I have done everything in my power to reduce my risk to others

Because you’d be insisting on the vaccinated staff being redeployed to you instead of being available for all their patients equally, while at the same time, the unvaccinated staff that aren’t good enough for you would be made to work with others, who might also have the same level of risk as you from unvaccinated staff.

sheepisheep

You have told me you are not vaccinated (in this thread), I now have said I don't want you treating me - I am allowed to do that. I am allowed to request to be seen by another HCP if I am unhappy about the care I receive - surely you must know this if you work for the NHS?

I haven't asked for your medical history, you have volunteered that information to me in this thread.

I would reread your last paragraph and perhaps spend some time working on your CPD reflecting on those exact issues re. the above. Good luck with your pregnancy.

SCT is certainly far more vulnerable 'sicker' than asthma. Some people are best just ignored if that's their level of understanding!

I'm sorry you're in this position. How would you feel if they postponed it? And if they would/could- when do you think you'd be happy to have it done? I'm not sure I'd be any happier having it done in 6 months than now, so I'm not sure about postponing?!

I'm sure you'll be in a green zone for your admission & treatment, but I'd still be really nervous and I'd also be asking if there's anyway to reduce how long I was admitted for.

I hope you can feel reassured when you speak to the hospital 💐

@BearEastie

Where I work we are not required to disclose our medical history or vaccination status to our patients. I have had the vaccine and would be happy to tell you (or anyone who asked). But I do have colleagues who would not wish to discuss that with you. You have the right to refuse to be treated, but that may mean delay or disruption to your treatment.

I actually could not be 100% sure which if my colleagues has had their first, second, or no vaccinations. I know in some cases as we’ve discussed it, but not in others. You can try calling and asking but there is no guarantee you can be given the reassurances you seek.

If you have had the vaccine, will be reverse barrier nursed etc, your risks are minimal anyway.

@NailsNeedDoing Actually when the redeployment was mentioned in this thread it said the staff were going to areas with less risk - so it's not the same risk at all, is it?

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but if an area is designated as less risky, than surely there's less chance of those patients contract covid, or having serious complications if they do contract it?

Do you ever pre-call to ask if anyone on your team has the common cold or if everyone is up-to-date on all other vaccines? Or do you simply trust that practices are in place to avoid communicable diseases flying around?

[quote BearEastie]@NailsNeedDoing how would i be passing risk on (sorry I missed that question)? I have done everything in my power to reduce my risk to others...

@TicTac80 Thanks, yes re the reverse barrier rooms - I have been in those (funky air flow ones is what I know them as)? I am kind of hoping for that but obviously it cannot be guaranteed that's where I will be.

Sorry your second vaccine was delayed too.[/quote]
Hopefully you'll get a single room/side room :) With immuno-suppressed patients, we'd wear masks, gloves etc, which we'd put on before entering their rooms. That was the case before covid. Obviously, different Trusts will have different policies.

On my ward currently, we wear the full shebang, whilst being up, close and personal with lots of covid +ve patients (many on CPAP/NIV/optiflow).

If it makes you feel better: I'm >40yrs old, BAME, asthmatic. I've not (yet) caught covid (thank God for that, I'm high risk and a single parent too). I get tested fortnightly (PCR and antibody) plus 3x weekly lateral flow tests. I feel safer on my (red zone, covid) ward than I do elsewhere.
I only got my first dose of the vaccination in December.

The PPE and being diligent with infection control procedures really do help to reduce risk of catching things/passing them on.

Going back to your OP....when I have to do the staff allocations for the day, I have to look at the acuity and dependency of the patients on my ward, and the skill set of the staff I have. It is not always possible or simple to just swap staff around. Feel free to ask the ward manager about it, but I imagine he/she would say a similar thing to me.

There's talk of covid badges in our trust to go along with the flu fighter ones.

Totally understand why your anxious, it would be a bit mad not to be in your position. I've ordered a spike antibody test to see if I've mounted a response to the vaccine (on anti-TNFs), and if it's any reassurance in my (community) team we have a 94% vaccination rate so far.

Good luck with your admission.

I'm sorry you're in this position. How would you feel if they postponed it? And if they would/could- when do you think you'd be happy to have it done? I'm not sure I'd be any happier having it done in 6 months than now, so I'm not sure about postponing?!

I actually have considered this, mainly because I am hearing all this stuff about Wave 3 of Covid. There's a multi-disciplinary team meeting that I am actually allowed to go to (virtually) and I have a huge list of questions, this is one.

I was supposed to have IVF first but that's been postponed and postponed as well - rightly so - but timings are all just a massive mess (thanks covid!)

Do you not think hospital work is hard enough at the moment without patients confronting us over whether we have had our vaccinations? And what do you do when we say no? There are 2 qualified nurses covering my ward overnight, you say no to being treated by one and what happens when the other is busy/on break? You are delayed with your meds? Not helped to the loo? Suppose that will give you something else to complain about

And what about porters, cleaners, anaethetists?

Op. Have you had the vaccination? What if staff decided not to treat you because you haven’t had it?
Or because you have a medical condition that they may catch. Is that ok ?

To me it's about consent. If an HCP has a higher risk than other HCPs of being able to transmit disease to a patient, then a vulnerable patient is at extra risk through being treated by that HCP. For staff to know that a vulnerable patient faces extra risk in being treated by a particular HCP, while the patient is kept in the dark about that extra risk, is a consent issue. The patient's consent to the extra risk of being treated by that HCP should be required IMO. The confidentiality of your personal health information is not absolute, when it comes to harm to others.

Porters and cleaners are not working directly with patients

An anaesthetist is

It will be mandatory for NHS staff who work directly with patients its not something that can be implemented overnight and those that choose not to be vaccinated will struggle when they move teams/trusts/apply for promotion

Just realised I sent the wrong link about 25 posts ago. Apologies. I suspect no one has said becuase no one clicked on it!

Here is the one I meant to send
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9307731/Almost-QUARTER-Londons-frontline-healthcare-workers-failed-accept-Covid-jab.html

Are you being screened with a COVID swab before admission and going onto a “green area” ? As you have had your vaccine your chances of serious illness are greatly reduced there also seems to be a possible protective effect from not being able to mount too much of an immune response. Good luck OP I hope it all goes well.

Our elective surgery ward is green but does not screen staff and there is a sign displayed to that effect. I don’t know of anywhere in the hospital that displays vaccination status. Lanyards and badges are not an official way of recording vaccine receipt but just act as a visible reminder to others that it is that time of year again.
As to the pp who said that staff should be made to protect their patients. I have been working as frontline as it gets since this all began. I have bought my own PPE system to keep working when found not to fit the masks available at the time. Was relieved to get the vaccine in week 2 of the roll out and then had to wait three months for the second dose. I had signed the consent form for the three week interval -the sort of ignoring a consent form a doctor or nurse would get the book thrown at them for. So don’t lecture people about duty.

@OhWhyNot
It may not apply to the op, but plenty of people staying in hospital for any length of time, are in close proximity to them.

@OhWhyNot It will be mandatory for NHS staff who work directly with patients
Link please. I have not seen that.

I’ve never had a flu jab badge and get mine every year so it might depend on the Trust you are getting care from. Some vaccines are mandatory as an NHS worker eg hepatitis, but the flu jab and indeed the COVID vaccine is optional.

You have every right to ask the question but staff don’t necessarily have to disclose it and to be honest it would seem a bit rude to ask. As PPs have said, a nurse in the early stages of pregnancy won’t have had it.

And what about porters, cleaners, anaethetists?

They are all health care staff in my mind, I mean they all work in a health care setting.

victoriaspongecake

Yes to the vaccine, and no my medical condition is not contagious.
If staff were at risk from becoming seriously unwell due to covid due to being immunocompromised that I would be quite happy for them not to treat me if I had chosen not to get vaccinated. However, that would a risk assessment for their workplace as their employer and not for me to deal with.

If I had HIV would you want me to disclose that if you were having to handle my bloods say and got pricked my a needle, or would you expect me to decide my medical records were confidential (given the HIV often doesn't make it onto centralised medical records)?

@CrayonInThreeBits That is a really good way of putting it - thank you.

@lightand You sent the BBC one, I clicked on it - it's also got good info on it too. There are several trusts now in the media over this in the UK (but yes seems London mostly) - it's been in and out for a few weeks.