AIBU to not travel to the UK under these circumstances?

[UpToMyElbowsInDiapers]

DH is British but moved abroad to my country almost a decade ago. Pre-pandemic, we would visit his family in the UK every 18 months or so. Because of the pandemic, we missed our last trip. His grandparents are aging and unwell. His mother hasn’t met our DC2 now 2 years old.

DH really wants to plan a trip to the UK this summer. I’m sympathetic, particularly to be able see his ailing grandparents as they very likely have months but not years ahead of them. They have been vaccinated, and UK vaccinations are proceeding at a pace unimaginable to us!

BUT: WE will not have been vaccinated by this summer. We will also have a 4yo, 2yo and a newborn. While I deeply respect my DH’s desire to go, it just sounds like total madness to attempt with two toddlers and a newborn under normal circumstances... let alone during COVID needing to worry about masks on an 8-hour flight, and quarantine when we get back, not to mention the health risk to us (we have no risk factors, but even with mild illness for a couple of weeks, it would be so miserable looking after three young kids...)

DH sees my logic but is very sad about it. AIBU to hold this line, or should we book a trip and then see closer to the time if we need to cancel?

Just my thoughts - if neither of you are classed as clinically vulnerable, and you can afford and arrange the trip, you should come to see his grandparents.
Take what might be the last chance to be with them in person, and for them to meet your children.
Life is too short to not come!
Looking at it totally dispassionately, yes, there is a small chance of you or DH catching covid, which, most likely, will be miserable but not serious ( or you could be asymptomatic) but if his grandparents are "fading" he might (probably won't) ever see them again, and your children won't ever meet them.
Even if the DC don't remember, you can have pictures to show them later.
If I were you, I would go for it.

Depending on where you are you might have to quarantine when you arrive here.

If I wasn’t already here, I wouldn’t dream of coming atm.

Can your dh go on his own?

No way would I be booking a trip to the UK this year.

My DP didn't meet dd2 until she was 2.5 because I couldn't face the 24 hour flight with a DC younger than this and they weren't able to do the flight due to health issues, so I understand that side of it.

Could your DH go on his own?

There is not a chance I would travel now in an environment where toddlers would have to wear masks on planes or where I would have to quarantine with three small toddlers when I got back. Even thinking about it is madness, IMO.

I suggested DH could go on his own. I don’t love the idea of being alone with two toddlers and a newborn for the duration of his trip, but I’d figure it out.

However, he would by law need to quarantine for 2 weeks on his return (at home is not allowed), so say he went for a week to the UK, he wouldn’t see the kids for a full 3 weeks, and he’s not sure he wants to do that.

I see a fair portion of people think IABU... maybe we’ll talk about it again this weekend. I’m open to being persuaded I guess. Although fair point someone made - if we have to quarantine in the UK as well as back home, then his time out of work will end up being a month or more... not feasible! So maybe the decision will be taken out of our hands.

Tbh I wouldn’t take any notice of the pole. But would consider what the majority of posters are saying.

Do you have to quarantine at home or in a hotel for instance?

What are the mask regulations where you are? Because in some countries they do include toddlers in which case your toddlers will be wearing masks and on an 8 hour journey plus 2 weeks in quarantine when they get back.

Anyone who says that you’re unreasonable has no idea what they’re talking about or what they’re suggesting you put yourself through.

I wouldn’t travel at the moment but the picture could be very different in August. Could you wait until nearer the time to decide? If cases are much lower by the summer you may feel much safer. When are you likely to get vaccinated in your country (if at all). The alternative is for him to travel alone. While it won’t be the same, he will still get to see his grandparents before they die. More generally a long haul flight with 3 very small children might not be much fun but is kind of part of the deal when you marry someone from abroad.

Another concern I have: the AstraZeneca vaccine has just finally been approved where we are, with an assumed 62% efficacy rate. So assuming his grandparents and clinically-vulnerable mother are vaccinated but only 62% chance of being protected against the virus, I do think it’s potentially irresponsible of us to go see them if we are unvaccinated and have just traveled across the world.

Are they able to use Skype/ FaceTime etc. I wouldn’t travel to the uk with young children at the moment, especially having to quarantine, think that would be worse than the flight . Are his gp’s in a home or in their own home and might this change soon? How many people will be allowed to visit and if they are in hospital will you be able to visit ? Your DP might be able to visit but you and the children might not be able to. Then it’s a bloody long journey for nothing on your and children’s behalf .
Can DP go by himself? Will you easily be able to get a flight back if things go pear shaped while you are there?

“Do you have to quarantine at home or in a hotel for instance?

What are the mask regulations where you are? Because in some countries they do include toddlers in which case your toddlers will be wearing masks and on an 8 hour journey plus 2 weeks in quarantine when they get back.”

Mask regulations here are age 2 and up. So yes, we’d need to enforce masks on an 8-hour flight for our two eldest.

Hotel quarantine is mandatory the first few days, then going home for the rest of the 14 day quarantine is permitted as long as everyone tests negative.

Our age group is likely to be vaccinated in October. I did suggest maybe he could go over by himself then. We shall see...

“ Are they able to use Skype/ FaceTime etc. I wouldn’t travel to the uk with young children at the moment, especially having to quarantine, think that would be worse than the flight . Are his gp’s in a home or in their own home and might this change soon?”

His GPs are home, and his parents are in their support bubble. The weird thing is, DH is really not close to his family at all. He video calls MY parents of his own initiative every couple of weeks, and joins me video calling them at least weekly. But he speaks to his own parents at most every 3-4 weeks and rings his GPs maybe every few months (and sometimes only if I nag him). I guess I’m a bit surprised he’s wanting to do this all of a sudden. I agree that a few good FaceTimes could go a long way!

Op, where have you read that AZ is only 62% effective? AZ is not only around 85% effective but it also reduces transmission. That being said, the flu jab every year is only around 60% effective and millions of people have it.

Not a chance, the stress travelling with small DC under normal circumstances would be enough to put me off. If he goes alone and he is quarantined in two countries, or worse picks up the virus.
It is a sad for his family there isn't much choice in it.

AlternativePerspective: www.cbc.ca/news/politics/astrazeneca-approved-1.5929050

Canadian regulators have approved the vaccine for use but based on the latest data believe that its efficacy previously was higher than it is now, possibly because of the prevalence of variants.

It will be fine and I think you definitely need to go.

I’m overseas and we will definitely be going back to the U.K. this summer. I also took the kids last summer.

I don’t know why everyone is fretting about kids wearing masks on planes - most kids in other countries wear masks all the time so it’s really not an issue.

The quarantine is fine too; it’s just like being stuck indoors in bad weather.

By the summer things will be a LOT better and Covid rates will likely be extremely low.

We are also abroad and also haven’t seen our folks for a long time.

We aren’t booking anything - just waiting to see how it all plays out for now.

I won’t be travelling until I have been vaccinated personally.

No way in hell would I take a 4yo and a 2yo on a plane, where they have to wear a mask for 8 hours... plus a newborn. Then there’s the hotel quarantine. The whole experience would be a massive ordeal even without the restrictions and combined these will be absolute hell.

Your dh is massively unreasonable. No way would I inflict this on my children. Does he not understand that your choice to continue having children curbs the possibility for you to visit relatives in the U.K.? I would have thought this to be a discussion point before your latest pregnancy, especially with the pandemic.

My dh is from Europe so I do have a lot of sympathy with your situation. We didn’t see his father last year and dh will most likely go alone to visit him as his house is cramped so stating for more than a couple of days isn’t an option. We can’t book a holiday as yet like we normally do each year and didn’t go last year at all as he is clinically vulnerable.

I haven't seen my family is months and intend to see them this summer. I won't be taking the kid or DH. But I will try as hard as I can to see them.

Can he carry over leave to next year so that he can see the family for a decent break?

Also, if you're Canadian and he's British, he's moved thousands of miles to be in your country. He's in a position you don't empatise with enough.

And Canada have bought loads of vaccines and also used their COVAD allowance so I bet he's vaccinated before October.

Where are you travelling from OP?
I'd probably wait for a month or two and then see. If your DH is desperate to book right now I'd tell him to just book his flights.
Your kids are so young, I think quarantine imposed on them at both ends would be very unfair. And expensive!
I really feel for your DH though.

Oh and the efficacy thing is a red herring. It's very effective against serious illness with COVID. Much more than the 62% it prevents transmission.

I didn’t realize kids have to wear masks on the plane from 2 years old. Travelling with kids that age is tough enough without having to ensure they keep their masks on.

I couldn’t imagine getting a 2 and 4 year olds to wear a mask for 10 minutes properly never mind a 8 hour flight I struggle with wearing it for my weekly 2 hour psychologist appointment and I’m 40 then the hotel quarantine no chance stay there and visit next year sad if his GPS pass but there’s FaceTime and we all have to make difficult decisions at the moment!

"we have no risk factors, but even with mild illness for a couple of weeks, it would be so miserable looking after three young kids..."

But for healthy young people like yourself even that is very unlikely.

Saying this is like saying you'd refuse to fly in the winter at any time as you may get the flu

I wouldn't fly with a newborn personally. I had my second in lockdown and we hid away as she had no protection about anything, let alone the virus. I would be saying he should go it alone.

For your info this is the latest on the AZ vaccine. www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html

I won't be going anywhere near my family back in the UK until we are all fully vaccinated and there is no risk of quarantine. Which will be at least 2022. My husband's little brother is terminally ill and we have accepted we might not see him again, so I do understand the situation you are in, but it just isn't a risk I would be willing to take.