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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think there is no LGBT community?

56 replies

Dalyesque · 26/02/2021 19:53

I guess I am really pissed off that I a lesbian woman (funny that I need to qualify the word lesbian) am grouped in with the mythical community labelled LGBT. We are not a community and I feel more part of a lesbian/feminist/ women’s community . Practically nothing to do with gay men though we can all acknowledge same sex attraction, a bit of a cross over with bi women, but nothing at all in common with men or transwomen.

OP posts:
MrsBrunch · 26/02/2021 23:10

I've always wondered why the 'T' was there as it's nothing to do with sexual orientation.

puppychaos · 26/02/2021 23:15

Fully supportive of the overall LGBTQ community as well as trans folk (which I know is a controversial one on Mumsnet - but I don't really care!).

However, yep, as a lesbian I feel a lot more solace and solidarity in (trans supporting) lesbian and women communities than the overall LGBTQ one. Lots of the issues just aren't the same and sadly lesbians are treated badly by much of the community as a whole at this point, for a range of reasons.

SmokedDuck · 26/02/2021 23:19

I think a lot of people don't feel like they fir into various "communities" which identity politics would like them to.

Usually this is because while they may have some characteristic in common with that group as a whole, there can be a heck of a lot of other things that divide them.

I know a few gay men who don't see themselves as being part of the gay community - they don't particularly hang out with other gay men, they don't necessarily toe the line on "lgbtq" issues or they might have the wrong political affiliation, etc. I can't imagine my best friend at a Pride event, I think he would be completely embarrassed about a lot of it - he'd be much more at home at some sort of ladies baking society where he could be sure people would keep all their clothes on.

The same is true about many other groups.

Linning · 26/02/2021 23:23

@MrsBrunch

I've always wondered why the 'T' was there as it's nothing to do with sexual orientation.
Some trans individuals have same-sex/same-gender attractions, also we have similar experiences (coming out/discrimination/lack of safe spaces/trauma related to our identities etc...).
MrsBrunch · 27/02/2021 00:09

@Linning same-sex/same-gender attractions is what is causing the problem for lesbians.

What do you mean by putting sex/gender into the same sentence?

Same sex attraction is vastly different to same gender attraction.

Do you acknowledge the difference?

Original poster
Dalyesque · 27/02/2021 00:33

The other thing is that over time lesbian communities have been destroyed by those who do not accept our choices and are insistent on colonising them. So it makes me furious that we are called LGBT when we are actually only one of those, and as Puppychaos ssid, have been treated pretty badly by the other groups.

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Original poster
Dalyesque · 27/02/2021 00:35

MrsBrunch Quite.

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Linning · 27/02/2021 00:38

[quote MrsBrunch]**@Linning* same-sex/same-gender attractions* is what is causing the problem for lesbians.

What do you mean by putting sex/gender into the same sentence?

Same sex attraction is vastly different to same gender attraction.

Do you acknowledge the difference?[/quote]
Yes I do and I wrote this on purpose to account for people who either account for or dismiss the existence of gender identity. Regardless of how you perceive trans individual a Trans woman dating a man is either gay (dating the same sex) if you are dismissive of gender identity or straight (dating opposite gender identity) if you account for gender identity. Which still make them part of the community same for transman dating a woman is either a lesbian (same-sex) to some or straight (same-gender identity) to others. It doesn’t change the fact that one way or another T belongs in the community.

As a lesbian I probably have more in common as stated with everyone (including transwomen and straight man) than I do gay man. So the notion that G and L belong in the same group but not T is a bit strange. Anyone who is attracted to women is one step closer to being like me than gay men.

What makes L and G stand in the same group isn’t our attraction it’s our common/shared experiences. That’s what makes the LGBTQ+ A community and why T belongs as much as G or L in my book.

Linning · 27/02/2021 00:42

@Dalyesque

The other thing is that over time lesbian communities have been destroyed by those who do not accept our choices and are insistent on colonising them. So it makes me furious that we are called LGBT when we are actually only one of those, and as Puppychaos ssid, have been treated pretty badly by the other groups.
Lesbians have had to faith their own set of issues but I would say bi people are probably the one who have it worst in the community. I have gone to both lesbian specific safe spaces and queer/LGBTQ+ safe spaces and the lesbian spaces were often the most vicious ones of all.

I don’t think lesbians (or anyone) should forced to date or do anything they don’t want to do. But I think lesbians are first in line in discriminating against fellow queer folks. I know way more lesbians who discriminate and are prejudiced against bi/pan woman than lesbians being prejudiced against within the community. In fact I had an awful experience when identifying as bi (despite always solely dating women) which I don’t have now I identify as a lesbian.

Linning · 27/02/2021 00:42

Faith was meant to be face*

Original poster
Dalyesque · 27/02/2021 00:45

Linning so straight het men are part of the community? Exactly why I dont want it , thanks.

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Linning · 27/02/2021 00:55

@Dalyesque

Linning so straight het men are part of the community? Exactly why I dont want it , thanks.
Sigh.

No, it means that the general assumption that G and L are more similar than L and T or G and T and therefore belong more together is ridiculous.

Obviously the LGBTQ+ community is about being attracted to the same-sex to some extent so straight men/women aren’t part of the community (though non-binary folks usually are therefore sexuality isn’t the main part of the LGBTQ+ Community anyway.)

You don’t have to want or feel part of the community. Not everybody does and it’s okay. It’s like any friendship groups. You can chose to be a part of it or chose it doesn’t fit you and not identify with it. Depending on where I live I am sometimes feeling very much a part of the community or not at all. It’s okay. The point is that you not identifying with the community and not wanting to be a part of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

I don’t always identify with the black community or French expat community. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You can not identify with a community and it still existing.

brushandmop · 27/02/2021 01:55

I'm a lesbian and have no desire to be part of an LGBT community.

It's the same tired stereotypes mixed in with the new woke 'rules'. So confusing. Too many 'safe spaces' 'queer this' queer that'.

I don't support self id and I am not attracted to (among MANY other things) men so my views are at odds with the hardcore LGBT groups.

The younger ones especially cannot have a conversation with you without being triggered that you don't share their views. My friends who are part of the community are completely immersed, they love it! To me it's a waste of my life.

Original poster
Dalyesque · 27/02/2021 11:00

Thanks for all your replies. The thing I can’t get over is the push to tell young lesbians that they are really T and should be changing their accordingly. Mostly coming from older men who think that if they can prove that they were trans all along that somehow it will justify what they did later on. I also think there is little space for feminist older lesbians who have been hounded out if we question this at all. The so called community is not all all supportive of most lesbians unless we agree that you can change sex. I feel really sad for young lesbians these days. For me, yes I have my own communities, but I know that the one I had as a young lesbian is not there. And while once upon a time I would have embraced the word queer, it no longer has any meaning.

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TingTastic · 27/02/2021 11:06

So, because you personally aren’t part of the community it doesn’t exist at all, anywhere? Is that what you’re saying?

peak2021 · 27/02/2021 11:21

I agree with you OP, though I am heterosexual, that lesbians are being marginalised and what may have been an LGBT community at one point with common aims/interests is not one now.

VladmirsPoutine · 27/02/2021 11:24

So, because you personally aren’t part of the community it doesn’t exist at all, anywhere? Is that what you’re saying?

Yes that seems to be the crux of it. And also that transmen and women should be afforded dignity and respect seems to piss off a lot of Mumsnetters - oddly enough the general population don't seem to give that much of a shit who is shagging who.

Original poster
Dalyesque · 27/02/2021 11:26

I’m saying that while I can get on with friends who are straight gay lesbian , there is no common core of understanding . Maybe that’s because with the inclusion of fetish, for example, and the exclusion of those who object, eg at pride events, the idea of being part of this ‘community’ is alien, and will be so for many.

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WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 27/02/2021 11:32

DS2 is bi, and said he doesn't see the T part of LGBTQ as being the same as the rest. He also dislikes the term "queer".
However he's not really part of any "community" at the moment as he's still relatively young, newly out and has been unable to socialise for much of the past year.

I do wonder how things will play out over his lifetime.

Dalyesque · 27/02/2021 11:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 27/02/2021 12:35

I've only ever viewed LGBTQ+ as a thing that came about through activism. I don't really view it as a 'community', at least not in the same sense that there's a 'scene'.

I don't really identify with it myself, despite having had relationships with both men and women I don't really define my own sexuality as Bi. If pushed, I'll admit to being Bi, but it's not how I'd ordinarily describe myself. My sexuality is just what it is. I think it's perhaps for this reason, i.e. that I don't strongly identify as Bi, that I also do not feel I have anything more in common with lesbians, gay men, transpeople, or folk who describe as queer etc, than I do with wider humanity, most of whom would be considered to be straight.

I do still think though that once you view things through the prism of rights, advocacy, activism etc then it's a lot more obvious why there's such a term.

CandyLeBonBon · 27/02/2021 12:38

@rosiejaune

I agree it is not really a cohesive group.

I am a bi woman, and don't feel like I have anything in common with gay men or trans people. Despite being gender nonconforming myself (so by some people's definitions I am trans, though I wouldn't use that term about myself as it implies you accept a certain ideology, which I don't).
And despite a significant percentage of the bi community being trans, and vice versa.

I have been to bi social groups, but I don't feel like I really belong at wider LGBT events such as Pride. It didn't help that the one year I went on the parade, the bi group was sandwiched between the Rubbermen and the Leathermen, who were dressed in their gear, and smoking all the way round (I had my daughter with me).

I feel similar @rosiejaune and had much the same experience with my daughter at pride a couple of years ago
Original poster
Dalyesque · 27/02/2021 13:57

So it seems that women have issues with men in the community. Of course we do, but we are not allowed to say so. See Lesbians being told they shouldn’t object to the takeover of the L and G by the T and removed from Pride. I have no pride in such a misogynistic group. I can’t remember what I said that was deleted above but it seems that we can’t say it.

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SimonJT · 27/02/2021 13:59

You don’t remember being transphobic Hmm

Original poster
Dalyesque · 27/02/2021 15:01

And you don’t think shutting girls and women up needs looking at Simon?

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